Utility Genetics

[WiderHorizons]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL Thank you! That was an awesome post!

May I ask ... how many hens do you have, and how many have gone broody? It sounds sort of uncommon for Buckeyes. (Looking for a rough percentage of broody hens.)

Where did you get your birds?

Quality birds of ANY breed are hard to find, especially if you want them to be big and broody! But I'm starting to think the American breeds will be easier, in that respect. (Just like the English have maintained the English breeds better than we have, we have maybe maintained ours better than we have the imports ... I don't know if any other nations raise American breeds though.)

I really don't mind dark meat. Although white has its place, culinarily speaking. Have you processed/eaten any of yours?

 

[Amer]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL Thank you! That was an awesome post!

May I ask ... how many hens do you have, and how many have gone broody? It sounds sort of uncommon for Buckeyes. (Looking for a rough percentage of broody hens.)

Where did you get your birds?

Quality birds of ANY breed are hard to find, especially if you want them to be big and broody! But I'm starting to think the American breeds will be easier, in that respect. (Just like the English have maintained the English breeds better than we have, we have maybe maintained ours better than we have the imports ... I don't know if any other nations raise American breeds though.)

I really don't mind dark meat. Although white has its place, culinarily speaking. Have you processed/eaten any of yours?

Right now I only have a couple hens. And a bunch of chicks as I try to repopulate the flock.
The breeder I got them from was an example of the kind of breeder that is no better than a hatchery, if worse. It brought diseases into my flock. And I have to work one size. So, I would not recommend him. He's in Wisconsin anyways, and you'd have to drive.
However, I would recommend Michael Sullivan and Aaron Baker. They both have excellent birds. I have both bantams and LF and the bantams I got were from Michael, though he keeps both varieties. His birds are very disease resistant and I haven't seen them suffer the diseases the large fowl brought in.
Yes, I have processed my birds and they were delicious. They take a while to grow to the size you can butcher compared to Cornish Cross, but they are quite delicious. The carcass is longer legged with less breast meat.
If you like dark meat, good, because Buckeyes are very gamy. The breast meat has a good texture.
I've been hesitant to try meat from birds that are over a year old, since it's very stringy, however, any bird can make a good soup.
The hens do tend to grow broody, though I have only had one of the four of five that I've kept for very brief amounts of time go broody.
Aaron Baker sometimes uses his hens to hatch chicks, and almost everyone in the American Buckeye Club would agree this is a broody breed.
For more information, I would recommend joining the club, so you can find breeders near you. Failing that, look here: (yeah there's a lot of breeders in OH, surprise)
https://www.poultryshowcentral.com/Buckeyes.html
And here.
http://americanbuckeyepoultryclub.com/Breeders.html

 

[WiderHorizons]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: "Very gamy". I like dark meat, yes, but that sounds like maybe I should try it on a small scale before setting my sights on it. I don't really have a good concept of what 'gamy' tastes like - some people don't like it, I know, but then, lots of people don't like brussels sprouts, and I love those.

Thank you for all that! I've wondered about caponizing Wyandottes and Buckeyes - although I suspect if you caponized a Buckeye and grew it out for a year or so it would taste EVEN STRONGER, and that might not be such a wonderful thing. Good things, generally, in moderation ...

I do love how vigorous and hardy they sound though ... My head is spinning. Too many breeds.

Does anyone know if it's true that crossing two very broody breeds (presumably specific birds/lines with history of broodiness) will result in hens that do not sit? I don't understand this.

 

[Amer]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: "Very gamy". I like dark meat, yes, but that sounds like maybe I should try it on a small scale before setting my sights on it. I don't really have a good concept of what 'gamy' tastes like - some people don't like it, I know, but then, lots of people don't like brussels sprouts, and I love those.

Thank you for all that! I've wondered about caponizing Wyandottes and Buckeyes - although I suspect if you caponized a Buckeye and grew it out for a year or so it would taste EVEN STRONGER, and that might not be such a wonderful thing. Good things, generally, in moderation ...

I do love how vigorous and hardy they sound though ... My head is spinning. Too many breeds.

Does anyone know if it's true that crossing two very broody breeds (presumably specific birds/lines with history of broodiness) will result in hens that do not sit? I don't understand this.

Well, it would help if I spelled 'gamey' correctly, lol. Yeah, I'd recommend trying it on a small scale at first. Almost all heritage breeds have that flavor to some extent, but the breast meat tastes like turkey breast, which is delicious and not very gamey.
If you caponized it, the flavor may be less, and the meat would be softer. Most of the very dark meat comes from their exercise -these are very beefy birds- Canonized birds are often fatter.

I don't know about your second question. I accidentally bred a bantam Dominique (broody breed) with an Ameraucana (sometimes broody) because the Dominique hatched chicks, and one of the chicks hatched more, if that helps.

 

[WiderHorizons]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: Again, very helpful! Turkey is good.

Basically, then, broodiness is a hit-and-miss gene, like foraging. Probably very few people hatch out chickens on a big enough scale, and then let them live long enough, to really learn anything about those genes. It would be hard to do, although easier to justify when the hens lay well. But if you're hatching out enough to feed a family anyway ...

It took me the longest time to finally look at the Dark Cornish and find out that they're actually chickens ... but everything describes them as excellent foragers, and Plymouth Rocks are generally considered very good foragers. Together, though, they make a bird that lives by the feeder, and can even eat itself to death, if you let it. This also I find very strange.

And the Dark Cornish have got the pea comb, the clean shanks ... but I gather their feathers aren't fluffy/thick enough to keep them warm and dry.

I'm concluding that the only way to get into heritage meat birds (of any breed) economically (short of buying an incubator) would be to buy a little flock of layers and a little flock of setters, nothing fancy, and then when they've grown up and are ready to set, buy hatching eggs of the nicer meat breeds. Eventually these nicer hens should produce eggs as well and you could just stick their eggs under the broody hens, as many as you desired to hatch, and even if you had only a few good birds out of those eggs you'd have a very good flock thereafter. And then eventually you'd have enough heritage meat hens to take over the laying and the setting, presumably.

What age did you process your Buckeyes? I understand the heritage breeds usually take 20-24 weeks. Do you know, or could you estimate, how much your Buckeyes weighed at slaughter - or perhaps once dressed out? Would you say that if you caponized them, they would get bigger, or would all the extra gains (if any) be fat?

I appreciate everyone's comments. I think all this is helping to clarify things for me.

 

[Amer]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: Again, very helpful! Turkey is good.

Basically, then, broodiness is a hit-and-miss gene, like foraging. Probably very few people hatch out chickens on a big enough scale, and then let them live long enough, to really learn anything about those genes. It would be hard to do, although easier to justify when the hens lay well. But if you're hatching out enough to feed a family anyway ...

It took me the longest time to finally look at the Dark Cornish and find out that they're actually chickens ... but everything describes them as excellent foragers, and Plymouth Rocks are generally considered very good foragers. Together, though, they make a bird that lives by the feeder, and can even eat itself to death, if you let it. This also I find very strange.

And the Dark Cornish have got the pea comb, the clean shanks ... but I gather their feathers aren't fluffy/thick enough to keep them warm and dry.

I'm concluding that the only way to get into heritage meat birds (of any breed) economically (short of buying an incubator) would be to buy a little flock of layers and a little flock of setters, nothing fancy, and then when they've grown up and are ready to set, buy hatching eggs of the nicer meat breeds. Eventually these nicer hens should produce eggs as well and you could just stick their eggs under the broody hens, as many as you desired to hatch, and even if you had only a few good birds out of those eggs you'd have a very good flock thereafter. And then eventually you'd have enough heritage meat hens to take over the laying and the setting, presumably.

What age did you process your Buckeyes? I understand the heritage breeds usually take 20-24 weeks. Do you know, or could you estimate, how much your Buckeyes weighed at slaughter - or perhaps once dressed out? Would you say that if you caponized them, they would get bigger, or would all the extra gains (if any) be fat?

I appreciate everyone's comments. I think all this is helping to clarify things for me.

Ok, so the Cornish Rock Cross is a bit complicated. If you simply crossed the two breeds you would get a very fine meat-and-eggs bird.
It would get a pretty nice breast and short legs and would grow a little faster than the slow-growing Cornish, however, it would still be able to keep acting like a chicken. It would have a pea comb, too.
Slower growing meat birds like red rangers may be similar.
However, this could be the great, great how many greats grandfather or grandmother to the meat birds you see. They worked for years (thanks Google https://www.bing.com/images/search?...des&selectedindex=6&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,2,6) trying to develop a bird that could grow meat faster and cheaper. Now most every breed trait from their ancestors has been bred out.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/.../poultry-food-production-agriculture-mckenna/
Look up Chicken of Tomorrow Contest to learn more than I explain.
Broodies can be pretty hit or miss. It is a possibility in any breed, even my Ancona went broody, so I'd say, keep enough chickens and it will spread like the plague. It's more a disease than an exact science
I'd say about six months. It seems like a lot, but that is only because I have to wait until I evaluate them for their show qualities. Aaron Baker eats his extras, and lets them brood their own. Caponizing is a great bonus. The meat is more tender and they put more on. You can butcher a capon at any age. I'm tempted to do some myself, but it's a tedious process.
If Buckeyes are too slow for you, I'd recommend Red Ranger, Slow Blacks, or Dixie Rainbows. Those are a bit slower than Cornish Cross but not too slow.

 

[crazy4ChickensNducks]

The only problem I see with your birds, is that they won’t get most to all of their diet from foraging. The only breed I can think of that will truly get most to all of their diet from foraging is the Icelandic. I’ve heard that the hens go broody, and they are VERY smart they know how to elude predators. I don’t know how big the roosters get, but it is something to think about. The YouTuber Justin Rhodes has a flock of Icelandic that free range behind his cows, check him out!

 

[WiderHorizons]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: That makes sense. So basically it would be pointless to mess with improving a Cornish because you'd wind up with a Buckeye.

I personally don't mind a slower-growing bird ... that was what I was trying to say. I could get very long-winded on that subject, but I won't.

Thank you. I really appreciate your informative posts.

@crazy4ChickensNducks: Thank you for your reply! I have in fact heard of Icelandics.

The two problems I have with Icies is that they're not very promising meat birds - kind of small - and that their temperaments do not sound very pleasant. Even if they're not pets, it's a lot more work and a lot less enjoyable to deal with uncooperative livestock.

I'm very interested in hardy chickens, though. After all, some meat would be better than none.

But, while I want something that won't sit by the feeder and gorge itself, I expect that, as far north as I am, I'm going to have to feed them a little anyway. I just want them to make the best possible use of the pasture I'm able to give them. I wonder if they'd murder each other if they had to be shut up during extreme cold? (Who would expect a chicken to survive -60 wind chill?)

In general they're quite rare and it's a little hard to say if they're being over-hyped. Also, that makes them hard to get.

I wonder about using them to cross over something else (to bring in color and hardiness) that would lend some meatiness and docility. Or just keeping some separate, as an internal hedge against disaster.

 

[ColtHandorf]

Have you considered Javas? They are available in Black, White, and Mottled. They are a true dual-purpose breed and I've had great success with them in the past. They are thrifty, fertile, go broody on occasion, and I never had aggression issues with them.

 

[Amer]

I kept Red Rangers once and was pleased with the results.