Vaccinate or Not

[BirdsBeesTrees]

Here’s some interesting (IMO. I’m weird lol) articles on it.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...s-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses/

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/could-some-vaccines-make-diseases-more-deadly

With those theories no one should get vaccines because it makes the diseases stronger. I never get a flu shot anyway.

 

[CSAchook]

With those theories no one should get vaccines because it makes the diseases stronger. I never get a flu shot anyway.

Not true. You cannot compare Marek's vaccines to the ones humans get. Most vaccines (for humans and animals) prevent the recipient from ever contracting the disease. The Marek's vaccines (there are several) are different. They do not prevent the disease. They only prevent the worst of the symptoms.

That is why wide spread use of human vaccines has lead to the complete eradication of some diseases, while Marek's vaccines have arguably just led to the development of more potent strains.

Also, get a flu shot!

 

[chickenenthusiasts5698]

My birds are unvaccinated..whenever I buy birds from breeder I always ask if they vaccinate. (I will not buy vaccinated birds)

 

[DiYMama540]

Very interesting articles posted...definitely worth reading!

 

[BloomBunny]

The vaccine benefits large operations. It keeps sick birds alive to lay or be culled. $$$

 

[Tesumph]

Not true. You cannot compare Marek's vaccines to the ones humans get. Most vaccines (for humans and animals) prevent the recipient from ever contracting the disease. The Marek's vaccines (there are several) are different. They do not prevent the disease. They only prevent the worst of the symptoms.

That is why wide spread use of human vaccines has lead to the complete eradication of some diseases, while Marek's vaccines have arguably just led to the development of more potent strains.

Also, get a flu shot!

Yes, this!
The Marek's vaccine is obviously controversial but to use blanket statements for all vaccines and all diseases is confusing and misleading.

Most vaccines heavily depend on herd immunity, and the more people who vaccinate, the more we are protected as a society (near impossible to achieve with poultry).
Others, like the flu vaccine, are constantly changing due to genetic drift.
Some vaccines are airtight and others are very leaky, simply due to the nature of the disease.

The vaccine benefits large operations. It keeps sick birds alive to lay or be culled. $$$

What is "the vaccine?" Marek's?
That is very easy to say if you have never had Marek's annihilate a flock before.

 

[FortCluck]

Very interesting articles and opinions in here. I'm glad I did this thread because it's helping me understand a bit better why people get certain vaccinations for their chicks.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=FBE23AC3-EB68-48DB-AB25-D274A6130A81

Thanks, but I hatch like 20 birds at a time. That would bring the cost to produce each chick up from like $1.50 to $3.50. Vaccines don't store well so I can't justify that.

 

[FortCluck]

Thanks, but I hatch like 20 birds at a time. That would bring the cost to produce each chick up from like $1.50 to $3.50. Vaccines don't store well so I can't justify that.

I assume if you sold these chicks too when they are older that you would sell them at a higher price too... That could cause a loss of customers jacking your price up like that.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I assume if you sold these chicks too when they are older that you would sell them at a higher price too... That could cause a loss of customers jacking your price up like that.

Right, it's about a lack of support for the salmonella vaccine. For example, if large hatcheries offered it I'd use it every time because they could USE all 5000 doses and the cost would be minimal. If it had widespread public support it would probably also be available in less expensive smaller dose bottles that I could use.

Here's an article on it;
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/business/25vaccine.html

Basically I'd use it if I thought it would do any good and not triple my cost of production for chicks. As it stands I have a fairly healthy flock and I feel safe eating their eggs over easy or even raw in some cases. But I would take advantage of this vaccine if it were socially or economically beneficial to do so.

With those theories no one should get vaccines because it makes the diseases stronger. I never get a flu shot anyway.

Luckily that's not the case with human vaccines at ALL. Most human vaccines, including the flu shot (when you happen upon the correct strain) produce what's known as a sterile immune response. As in, your immune system recognizes the disease and eradicates it causing it to spread less. Even in the case of human flu vaccines for the wrong strain, if you are vaccinated for ANY flu and get a different strain than you're vaccinated for your immune response is stronger and the disease reproduces in your body less, and therefore sheds less virus.

With Mareks, the vaccine isn't actually developed from chicken Mareks it's developed from an adjacent species Mareks. What happens is instead of producing a greater immune response, basically the birds body almost learns to ignore the Mareks inside of it and not react to the virus by developing tumors or symptoms. It doesn't actually fight the Mareks virus, it just doesn't get hurt by it. This creates a sort of silent carrier of disease, close to a human having contracted chicken pox or mono - the condition is still there and still spreadable, it's just not effecting THAT particular bird. Because the bird is still healthy, in fact, the virus has even more resources to reproduce than a sick bird (who may stop eating and die) so they shed MORE of the virus because of its greater presence in the body, not less.

This is also why the chicken pox vaccine for people is relevant even though a more natural immunity exists. If you get the 'pox you have a chance of relapse (shingles) or passing it on still. If you get the vaccine it actually produces a STERILE immune response. No shingles, no chance of relapse, no passing it on even for a brief window, nothing. It just goes away. Through methods like this you can actually eliminate entire diseases. You can't if people are still catching it through otherwise healthy individuals passing it on. And that's especially true for Mareks.