Vaccinate or Not

[FortCluck]

Honestly I have no idea about the hotter strains. That’s why I tagged Mixed Flock Enthusiast because she has done much more research directly....

It’s so confusing. For example ideal hatchery doesn’t recommend vaccinations for any small flocks. But the other hatcheries do. The first time I ordered from My Pet Chicken I selected no vaccinations and they called me and said they recommend it on every bird. So I added it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's where I get confused too... Why does one place say not to and others pretty much pull your arm over it guess I won't be ordering chicks because that to me is something I don't want to do

 

[ShrekDawg]

That's where I get confused too... Why does one place say not to and others pretty much pull your arm over it guess I won't be ordering chicks because that to me is something I don't want to do

You don’t have do it. You can choose no on it or order from a place that doesn’t recommend it and some places don’t call you or force you to.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Aren't you not supposed to mix vaccinated with non vaccinated?

I think I read that somewhere

Marek’s vaccines are modified live virus, so they do contain virus that actually infects the bird. That’s because herpesviruses are not controlled by passive immunity, like the antibodies that your dog generates after a rabies vaccine. To control herpesviruses, the immunological cells, like T cells, need to be activated and trained to recognize the virus as an invader. Live viruses are much better at activating T cells so the vaccine is a weak strain of virus that infects cells, activates T cells, but doesn’t cause disease. The older vaccines (cell free HVT) have weaker virus that probably doesn’t spread to unvaccinated members of the flock. It’s true that the most effective vaccines, like the Rispens vaccine, probably do spread to unvaccinated birds. However, it’s still the vaccine strain so it still shouldn’t cause disease in unvaccinated birds. Vaccination can complicate testing if the feather dander is being tested for virus by PCR, so there are PCRs that specifically distinguish between vaccine and wild strains of MDV. That’s also why state lab necropsy testing looks specifically for the disease itself, rather than just testing for virus.

We have a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated birds. So far, it’s only our unvaccinated birds that have shown disease, but they are also the ones that brought the virus to our flock. I’m guessing that recommendations about not mixing vaccinated and unvaccinated birds refers to a vaccinated flock that may mask that they have the virus, because the vaccine protects the birds from disease, but they can still have virus replicate and infect any unvaccinated, naive birds that are introduced. However, adding vaccinated birds that are not infected with wild type MDV should not be harmful to an unvaccinated flock.

 

[jolenesdad]

Two clarifications... I wouldn’t say MPC forced me, they were confirming availability of something and suggested it cause I needed to change the way I had ordered.

also, I just called ideal.... and to add more confusion....


They said their website is confusing. They do not recommend “SPECIAL SERVICES” (ie beak trimming) for small flocks however she “absolutely, 100%, definitely” (that’s a quote) recommends mareks in every purchase....

 

[ShrekDawg]

I have a much lengthier post talking about this earlier in this thread, but the jist of it is that the use of highly effective vaccines by large commercial hatcheries of meat and egg laying birds is probably driving increased virulence of some strains of the Marek’s disease virus (MDV). That’s because the vaccine allows birds with very hot strains to live long enough to shed virus. Different strains of MDV have different levels of pathogenicity, with some strains producing mild disease or killing a smaller proportion of the flock. The hottest strains would kill all unvaccinated chicks before they can replicate much virus.

Yeah I think I saw that one but isn’t that the same as what the article said? I guess that’s where I was confused. It sounded similar to me but maybe I’m reading it wrong

 

[FortCluck]

Two clarifications... I wouldn’t say MPC forced me, they were confirming availability of something and suggested it cause I needed to change the way I had ordered.

also, I just called ideal.... and to add more confusion....


They said their website is confusing. They do not recommend “SPECIAL SERVICES” (ie beak trimming) for small flocks however she “absolutely, 100%, definitely” (that’s a quote) recommends mareks in every purchase....

I'll stick with hatching my own eggs because as far as I know my flock is healthy. Too confusing for me on all the different opinions.

 

[FortCluck]

Two clarifications... I wouldn’t say MPC forced me, they were confirming availability of something and suggested it cause I needed to change the way I had ordered.

also, I just called ideal.... and to add more confusion....


They said their website is confusing. They do not recommend “SPECIAL SERVICES” (ie beak trimming) for small flocks however she “absolutely, 100%, definitely” (that’s a quote) recommends mareks in every purchase....

I just think stating you should have them vaccinated or however they told you is twisting an arm. I think maybe it would confuse a newer buyer too if they got an email stating they needed vaccinations or they should get them or however it was put.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Marek’s vaccines are modified live virus, so they do contain virus that actually infects the bird. That’s because herpesviruses are not controlled by passive immunity, like the antibodies that your dog generates after a rabies vaccine. To control herpesviruses, the immunological cells, like T cells, need to be activated and trained to recognize the virus as an invader. Live viruses are much better at activating T cells so the vaccine is a weak strain of virus that infects cells, activates T cells, but doesn’t cause disease. The older vaccines (cell free HVT) have weaker virus that probably doesn’t spread to unvaccinated members of the flock. It’s true that the most effective vaccines, like the Rispens vaccine, probably do spread to unvaccinated birds. However, it’s still the vaccine strain so it still shouldn’t cause disease in unvaccinated birds. Vaccination can complicate testing if the feather dander is being tested for virus by PCR, so there are PCRs that specifically distinguish between vaccine and wild strains of MDV. That’s also why state lab necropsy testing looks specifically for the disease itself, rather than just testing for virus.

We have a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated birds. So far, it’s only our unvaccinated birds that have shown disease, but they are also the ones that brought the virus to our flock. I’m guessing that recommendations about not mixing vaccinated and unvaccinated birds refers to a vaccinated flock that may mask that they have the virus, because the vaccine protects the birds from disease, but they can still have virus replicate and infect any unvaccinated, naive birds that are introduced. However, adding vaccinated birds that are not infected with wild type MDV should not be harmful to an unvaccinated flock.

This makes more sense. Thanks

So I have some chicks that I hatched from eggs I got from a hatchery and they’re 6 weeks old now and moving outside soon next to my current flock but not together. Anyway, they need to be moved outside because they’re starting to smell and just are way too big (though their area is large and they’re not cramped) but they’re not vaccinated because they were hatched from eggs but my current flock is all vaccinated cause they’re from a hatchery. I’m concerned about putting the unvaccinated ones near the vaccinated ones... will they be okay out there?

 

[ShrekDawg]

Two clarifications... I wouldn’t say MPC forced me, they were confirming availability of something and suggested it cause I needed to change the way I had ordered.

also, I just called ideal.... and to add more confusion....


They said their website is confusing. They do not recommend “SPECIAL SERVICES” (ie beak trimming) for small flocks however she “absolutely, 100%, definitely” (that’s a quote) recommends mareks in every purchase....

Huh, that’s weird because when I ordered mine a box popped up that said they don’t recommend vaccinating.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Two clarifications... I wouldn’t say MPC forced me, they were confirming availability of something and suggested it cause I needed to change the way I had ordered.

also, I just called ideal.... and to add more confusion....


They said their website is confusing. They do not recommend “SPECIAL SERVICES” (ie beak trimming) for small flocks however she “absolutely, 100%, definitely” (that’s a quote) recommends mareks in every purchase....

Just tested it again and got the same notice as before. So weird she told you that