Vaccinations?

[Stephmarie08]

New to chickens. Was wanting information on vaccinating my chicks. Do I need to vaccinate? If so what do I need to vaccinate for? What are the reasons not to vaccinate? Does vaccinating affect eggs or a chicken for meat? Thanks for any advice.

 

[chooks4life]

New to chickens. Was wanting information on vaccinating my chicks. Do I need to vaccinate?

If so what do I need to vaccinate for?

If you decide to go into purebreds you will likely need to use the Marek's vaccine because there is a genetic basis to all disease resistance, which is not strongly present in many breeds thanks to generations of reliance on the vaccine alone. It would be a waste of money to spend out getting in breeding stock just to lose them all because they're weak, as so many are. Some breeds need coddling compared to others. It's one reason I love my mutts.

One reason is that some vaccines carry death rates, cause blindness, and other injuries like that.

Vaccinating is a bandaid measure against many diseases, but doesn't give you true resistance; it's protecting weak stock so they can pass on their weak genes. I do believe in helping the weak but at some point it becomes unethical, and inhumane, to continue to breed on lines that suffer and die without being basically wrapped in cottonwool.

These diseases are literally almost as common as dirt, almost impossible to avoid for a lifetime, and only harmful to a very small percentage, the weakest, susceptible individuals. Their resistance or susceptibility is dependent on their genetics to a large degree.

If you vaccinate, you will simply never know if you are breeding disease resistant or susceptible chickens, and you will end up reliant on the vaccines to ensure you don't lose them all, or large numbers of them, and the vaccines lose efficacy over time as strains of diseases mutate so even vaccinating religiously you still run the risk of having your lifetime's work of breeding wiped out in one fell swoop. This is currently happening with the Marek's vaccine, as it has happened to all the Marek's vaccines before it; it loses efficacy and the weak die despite it.

Resistance is easily developed in 7 generations or less as a rule of thumb, but can also be lost and turned into susceptibility in 7 generations or less. Breeding experiments on commercial breeds proved that as far back as the 1900s. While vaccinating, you'll never know which direction your breeding choices are taking your lines.

Don't offhand know of any studies that have been done on that. I would guess the official answer to be 'no'.

Thanks for any advice.
Hope it helps. Best wishes.

 

[Ridgerunner]

When I first moved here I called my county extension agent who put me in touch with a professor at the state land grant university that teaches about poultry medicine and disease. He is also on the team that investigates poultry diseases in the area. With this being Tyson headquarters there are a lot of chickens in this area. It’s big business and Tyson has made the University of Arkansas one of the best poultry science departments in the States through donations. He has also won grand championships from his breeding chickens so he is real familiar with backyard flocks, not just commercial poultry. I felt I was in competent hands. May you be so lucky as to find someone like this if you go this route.

We chatted about diseases in this area. There had been one reported case of Marek’s in this county in the past two years, not too near me. I know there are a lot of unreported cases but this did not seem like an epidemic to me. We also chatted about my management plans. I don’t show chickens and don’t bring in any living chickens other than chicks from a major hatchery. I do get hatching eggs from some people, not all NPIP, but mainly hatch my own.

I have broody hens hatch and raise a lot of my chicks. If you vaccinate for Marek’s you need to keep the chicks isolated from other chickens for about a week to give the vaccination time to take effect. Obviously I can’t do that and have a broody hen hatch and raise chicks.

I never let any of my chickens get older than three years before they are eaten. Part of that is just me playing with genetics, part is that I want to keep my flock young and fresh to maintain decent egg production. That professor said this would reduce my exposure to certain diseases. As Chooks said or at least implied, how you manage your chickens plays into this decision.

I elected to not vaccinate for anything. I expose my brooder raised chicks to their environment as soon as I can. My brooder is in the coop with the adults and I feed them some dirt from the run around Day 2 so I know they are exposed to anything the adults have, like coccidiosis, and can start working on immunities immediately. My starting stock was hatchery stock. I’ve never had Marek’s or any real disease. I have practically no parasites either though I know there is coccidiosis in my flock. I only treat when I need to, not as a preventative. I rely on strengthening their immune system as my first line of defense and so far it is working.

I don’t know what the right answer for you is. If you have cases of Marek’s, Fowl Pox, or something else all around you then you may want to vaccinate. If you are going to take them to shows or take them to and bring home chickens from chicken swaps you might want to vaccinate plus read up on quarantine. We are all in unique situations. There is no one right answer for all of us.

 

[chooks4life]

What Ridgerunner said is good practice for most poultrykeepers, a good basic outline of a successful method to follow. Mine is different, but everyone needs to tweak the formula to their conditions.

I also don't vaccinate for anything, never have; the few already vaccinated chickens I'd bought all died of disease many years ago but my non-vaccinateds are still going strong.

I personally do keep old chickens, in large part to help sort of inoculate the ground/environment/future generations with whatever diseases they carry, so I can maintain working on resistance at all points, which you can't do without the diseases being present of course; this is influenced by the fact that the very first chickens I got brought in multiple diseases. If they hadn't, I would have sought them out to acquire immunity or resistance as applicable for mine because I am keen on forging decently resistant lines. Too many weak lines out there already, they're a disservice to future generations of both chickens and humans alike.

Also, you can't know what longevity or age-related diseases your flock carries, genetically speaking, if you don't keep old chickens. I made mistakes early on with selecting breeders under the age of two years then culling them once used, which was too soon apparently because chickens, turkeys etc only reach full true maturity after two years old and once they do, temperaments can change without warning. Before that, they were young adults, regardless of how mature they may have seemed. Now I keep all my older ones to see how they are as full adults, both in terms of health and temperament. Also, they help preserve peaceful social order, which I also consider highly important. I wouldn't tolerate a flock of chickens that mauls and kills their own.

Most Marek's authorities say if your flock has not tested clear of Marek's, assume you have it, because of how common it is. There are often no symptoms whatsoever because most chickens, especially 'neglected'/barnyard type flocks, are highly resistant to it. I did have to weed out some lymphoid complex disease prone weaklings to begin with but in the years since it's never been necessary again.

Best wishes.

 

[Stephmarie08]

Thank you both for all your advice. It has helped. I appreciate your time. I will check in to what diseases are cocommonly local.

 

[chooks4life]

Thank you both for all your advice. It has helped. I appreciate your time. I will check in to what diseases are cocommonly local.

You're welcome, here's hoping you have many years of enjoyment of a healthy flock. One of life's simple wholesome pleasures.

Best wishes.

 

[Stephmarie08]

Thank you1