Vacinations- BioSecurity (long rant with opinions wanted!)

[spook]

The other thing I have read, not sure if I posted it, but hawks are known carriers of CRD bacteria, also wild Turkey can catch some of these nasty virus/bacteria/diseases and just walking through your yard, leaving droppings that begin to turn into dust, blow in to your birds. You have it.
One of the most amazing areas these issues come from...our grain bags. How many of us open a new bag of grain, scoop from it, feed the birds without changing clothing, showering, and changing your outfit and shoes.

I am NOT a pusher of vaccines, but I'm now understanding the purpose behind it. Its a matter of time before we all have some of these issues, especially how we all travel now. From visiting people with birds, parking lots, grocery stores, its amazing how these issues sprout! Look how far our food comes from, how many people touched it- yuck.

What Country and I are trying to do is educate everyone. Not push the shots, but for instance, my Vet told me, my soil is contaminated. So no matter where I build a "new" house, old house will continue to have that bacteria in it- you cannot sterilize wood, and any one that comes to take that chicken coop off my property, or say I sell my house, its now someone else's disease!
How frustrating!

Never think you have nothing to add to this post, just reading it is educating and forming an opinion, this is what Country and I want!

 

[country]

Wow! Hawks & wild turkeys are also carriers? Well then, obviously it doesn't make much difference how many precautions we take to keep our flocks safe, if CRD infected poop can fall from the sky & make them sick. Maybe we are all going about this the wrong way. Instead of trying to keep the germs away from our flocks, perhaps we should just dress them all in little chicken hazmat suits! I know a gal that makes wonderful chicken diapers & I'll bet she could make some nifty little outfits for them containing a built-in gas mask. This would be really funny if it wasn't so darn scary & frustrating.

Please, anyone, if you have any info or have time to do any research, I would really appreciate it if you would post on one of the vaccination threads. This one would probably be best, as Spook has done much more research than I have & this thread is much more informative. However, a lot of posters have added info the other thread, so if you want to read those too, go to https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=108591.

Thanks, Country

 

[spook]

Don't think I know anything!!!! LOL I know enough to make everyone miserable!

the chicken club is gonna love me! woohooo, I want to see what others think about these issues!

 

[WoodlandWoman]

We have hawks, a flock of wild turkeys and any other species that frequents our state, coming through or living on our property. Our chickens have ranged over 5 or 6 acres of it. It's not that they haven't been exposed to the world, they just haven't had a disease outbreak.

I just provide a good diet, exercise and as stress free an environment as I can. Those things all boost the functioning of their immune systems. I think it works for a lot of people's flocks.

People that are participating in higher risk activities probably need to do more. Showing or moving a chicken to a new home doesn't just potentially expose it to disease causing organisms, it's also a really high stress situation for the chicken. Some chickens handle it better than others, but I think it's pretty widely known that chickens are stressed by change. Stress really does lower the immune system.

Also, I think some areas do have more of a problem with particular diseases.

It's not all that different from people. Have you ever read any of the studies done on how many and what types of disease causing organisms are on every object you touch, from the time you get up until you go to bed? Especially out in the world, where everybody is touching everything? It makes you wonder how we all survive! It's because of our immune systems. It doesn't mean we shouldn't practice good hygiene. It just means we shouldn't forget that a healthy immune system is our first and best line of defense.

 

[kinnip]

WoodlandWoman is right about the ubiquitous nature of disease causing organisms. Good nutrition and hygiene are key. Many wild birds carry diseases, it's how avian flu spread. Most disease carriers only shed infected tissue when under stress, dietary or environmental. You'll never avoid all disease and you can't vaccinate for everything. If you engage in high risk activities, go for it. As for me and my cloistered little flock, I won't be vaccinating. It's too expensive and provides nothing but false security. Evolution has ensured that these animals have an immune system suited to deal with their environment, as long as their systems aren't too stressed. In short, relax, it'll be o.k.

 

[ItsSuzzie]

Hello everyone. I have had chickens now for two years and as far as vaccinations go, I am lost. I too have read alot on the web site for how to give shots, how to take blood, some vaccines come in packages to add to water, etc. I am brave enough to venture out and try it, but I lack the intelligence in knowing where to start. Maybe one of the seasoned members could hook us up with a vaccination program of sorts. I don't want to spread disease to any animal or human. And I have lost a few to this Cold Virus thing. I want to get the NPIP testing, but I am afraid they may deside to kill off my flock. Not because my birds are sick...no. Because they have power. And can make that decision.

As for vaccinations costing alot and being in quantities of 1,000. I have a thought on that. When I purchase mine. I will vaccinate my birds, my local feed barn birds, they assist me so we are able to learn together, and put up a sign for the day and time and invite others to bring their chickens to the feed barn for the vaccination, letting everyone know that I have no experience so they are taking a chance, but I will have the vaccine for the first 1,000 birds. And of course charging a small fee to help pay for the vaccine. That way I can burn out the Vaccine in one day, or toss just a little away.

It is work, yes. But it may help pay for the Vaccine. And it may help the area to beat some of these infections. Just a thought, what do you think?

But, I still need some Vaccine guidelines...which one to go with first, that kind of thing. Having over 60 chickens means the vet is out. Too much costs. I have never shown a bird, but one day...just maybe I will.

What do you think?

 

[WoodlandWoman]

I'm not against vaccinations, at all. One thing to consider about basically running a vaccination clinic, is that while the intent would be to stop the spread of disease, you could actually be encouraging the spread of disease, by bringing together so many different flocks of unknown health status all at once, in one place.

It would have to be done very carefully, if you did that. I'd also check on the legality of you giving vaccinations to other people's birds, just to avoid any legal problems.

 

[spook]

Wow, some great words here, thank you. This is basicly what I wanted, to do what is best for YOUR birds. I so agree with the WLW on the germs we all carry, keeping healthy is the main thing, but when we bring in a hen, quarentine it, do what is best and healthiest for our girls and we fail. Then looking at them as carriers is horrible too.
But when those in that high risk group go to fairs, shows and even ChickenStock, we risk a lot. Bringing germs in on our feet and clothing, even the grain bags. Eeeek, I have never thought anything beyond keeping them safe, feed them good and they are my pets.
Yes, bringing them together can create a stress induced issue, lowered immune systems and if I put one of my birds in a show, I'd have the melt down before the bird did! lol.
ItsSuzzie, the NPIP test is a drop of blood on a glass test area, a drop or two (not sure but watched it once) and I was shocked that the poultry were so calm about it. As I spoke to this particular gentleman he told that only twice in his years of giving tests, did he come up with a positive. Then they call the state Vet and Lab, draw blood from the birds that tested positive and neither one of them was positive. I'm surprised that this is the only test that they do, this is kinda my point with the middle men and women.
Oh and Country...LOL...keep your little hazmats in your own yard!

omg, can you imagine driving by countries house and the poultry all sound like mini darth vaders! Waaahaaahaa ah oh, boy.
There could be the possibility that a Veternarian, if asked to volenteer his time,perhaps this could become a very interesting community service .
This is a worry later issue too, not me nor you, but something we have all done is brought used chicken coops home and been dang proud of them...these illness' could be in them.
Just gristle to chew on. But the discussions are great, keep them coming!

 

[ItsSuzzie]

Ok, a couple of thoughts...if I brought the community birds together for shots, I would do it in an empty building at the feed store. They have people in every day with their farm's shoes on, so the hazards already exist. I would vaccinate mine at home first, then go their.

I never though about the used cages and stuff we pick up at garage sales and swap meets.....Ok, I am guilty of that one.

Vaccinating is not the solution, but it is a help.

Yep, I have read about the NPIP testing. Just a drop of blood from a selected Bird or two. Since I have six coupes, they would probably test one from each coupe I immagine. But these people still have power and that just scares me. I guess it would be for the better though, if they needed to be destroyed because they were sick. But loosing a pet, or sixty pets is a bit rough. We have come a long way in 2008.

Any advice on vaccinations? Trying to squash the cold thing. Antibiotics work to kill it off, but as the weather changes, ahh choo...again.


Where are my poultry show people.....what vaccinations would you like for my bird to have if it were going to be housed next to your precious pet?

 

[spook]

That's it Suzie, what do you want, the best thing is to realize that by adding birds to your flock, its a case of just being aware of what you are bringing home to your property.
This was from the Maine State Veterinarian, yes-lol, I went to the top to have things explained and this is how he phrased it!

It’s more likely it was just Mycoplasma and ILT which are both pretty common. There are blood tests for Mycoplasma and for AI.
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What bothers me about "They are pretty common" is that doesn't anyone know why their birds sneeze, wheeze and cough. I didn't, so are we responsible to allow others to realize that this is not the end of the world, that you have an all in and all out. Not one or two goes down the road for the auction or show. People are not honest when they want to make a buck. (I am not pointing at any one nor intend to)
Perhaps its time to have our quarantined birds have blood drawn and wait the test results. Again, its just not appropriate for some families, including me, the cost of blood test.
Eventually I do want to have these tests done, basically for my own worries. I'll have 2 birds tested as they all live in such close quarters that if 1 is sick, they are all sick.
I guess what I have learned is not to show birds. Enjoy everyone else's, help out and support those that are willing to do so. Its a great hobby and food source for us.
This is the rest of the letter from the Maine State Vet;

The best advice I can give is to NOT add new birds to an existing flock but practice an all in, all out approach. Most small flock owners I talk to have run into problems when they add new birds to an existing flock. Mycoplasma will cause respiratory signs (coughing, sneezing, runny eyes/nose, etc.) and ILT can cause severe coughing with blood. ILT is a virus so treatment is problematic. The Terramycin may be of some help for the Mycoplasma and for secondary bacterial infections.

Hope this helps.
Don Hoenig, VMD
State Veterinarian, Maine
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When I questioned if there could be a chance of Avian Flu, he said "No, he would have known about it ASAP and actions would have been taken" Very nice man and it took him all of 1 hour to reply to my email. IMAGINE! woohoo, its really nice to know that someone is in our corner, the small flock owner, and will take time out to reassure us.
Now, back to the questions at hand, immunize or not. When you do, then we get off serum disease/virus'. It really is personal.
Keeping this as it is discussing things is a good thing, so don't give up on me, shots might be or not be our way...? hmmm...​