Vegans of BYC!!

[Callender Girl]

Is it cruel to keep dairy cows on grassy pastures? No. But, in order for cows to produce milk, they have to keep giving birth to calves.

What happens to those calves? Does the dairy owner keep them -- and have an ever-expanding herd? Sell them to someone who keeps them safe and happy? Do the male calves end up in someone's freezer?

It's the same thing I struggle with when I buy chicks, ducklings and goslings at the farm store. I KNOW that most hatchery males come to horrific ends, but I also know I don't need any more roosters, drakes or a gander. The only time I let a broody hen hatch her own eggs, she produced two live chicks -- both females. That was lucky because I don't know what I would have done with two more roosters.

I think if you have the space to raise a few goats, breed and milk them and make sure any offspring get good lives with you or elsewhere, that's different in my mind than a commercial dairy where volume is important and the bottom line is making a necessary profit in order to stay in business.

 

[BelovedBirds]

The main thing for me, as other people have said, is the lives of the animals.
I would like to keep my own goats for milk someday, so I can keep them all happy, and still get a bit of milk.
If cows are kept in big grassy paddocks, as on the dairy farms around here do, do you still think thats cruel?

Free ranging is definitely an improvement, but is it still inhumane? Personally I think yes, due to being bred over and over in order to continue producing large amounts of milk- having the calves taken away, and due to the amount of milk they are bred to produce (which can lead to deficiencies and will eventually break the cows). Even with the dairy cows themselves aside, the calves they produce have to end up somewhere, and for males, that is usually a plate.

Its possible to use a small amount of milk temporarily in a humane way, but it still wouldnt be needed, and it wouldn't be enough to be worth it to most people.
There's also a less talked about difference between animal welfare and animal rights- We dont want to cause suffering, but we also dont want to exploit animals for their products.

I miss dairy a lot, milk in my coffee, it was great. Possibly one of the harder things to give up, but I got over it pretty fast and rather like soya milk now!

 

[Bakbuk]

Free ranging is definitely an improvement, but is it still inhumane? Personally I think yes, due to being bred over and over in order to continue producing large amounts of milk- having the calves taken away, and due to the amount of milk they are bred to produce (which can lead to deficiencies and will eventually break the cows). Even with the dairy cows themselves aside, the calves they produce have to end up somewhere, and for males, that is usually a plate.

Its possible to use a small amount of milk temporarily in a humane way, but it still wouldnt be needed, and it wouldn't be enough to be worth it to most people.
There's also a less talked about difference between animal welfare and animal rights- We dont want to cause suffering, but we also dont want to exploit animals for their products.

I miss dairy a lot, milk in my coffee, it was great. Possibly one of the harder things to give up, but I got over it pretty fast and rather like soya milk now!

Almond milk's great too if you don't have any allergies/issues with eating nuts.

 

[BelovedBirds]

My reason for being a vegetarian is because I love animals and don’t want to eat them

it's awesome that you've given up meat!
Thats a huge step, good for you!

 

[BelovedBirds]

I've been a Vegan in the past and a vegetarian.
These days I'm just happy to eat much like most of the worlds population.
Given the choice I would rather only eat meat I've raised and killed myself.
I can't help thinking the Vegan movement is something for the privilidged middle classes. All those supplements cost money and of course one needs to have the means and time to do the cooking. Even as a vegetarian I found I was forever cooking to ensure I got a properly balanced diet and I detest cooking.
If we all just ate less meat and dairy produce much of the disgusting factory farming practices could be reduced.
I'm not worried about my health because of my eating habits whatever they may be at the time. It's the health amd keeping conditionsof the creatures I eat that I'm concerned about.

supplements do cost a bit of money, but most that I have found have been fairly cheap. Regardless of diets, everyone ought to take certain vitamin supplements to maintain good health.
Cooking time could be an issue for some people but I do believe there is a solution to everything- Personally I like to precook some meals at the start of the week, if I dont have time to be cooking daily- that way I can reheat, or eat cold to save time.
Lots of things are fairly common and cheap, vegetables obviously cost the same, the only real expenses I've noticed are processed plant based meats- those can cost a pretty penny, so personally I don't eat those often. I make most of my food from scratch or eat cheaper premade alternatives.

Having lived non-vegan and vegan, I can't say I've observed a huge difference in costs. But maybe thats just where I'm located.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Yes I dont drink milk for this reason. The only dairy I will eat is local cheese, from a farm we know where goats and cows are free to mingle on grass with their young, and are not strapped to a milker in a barn all day & night.

This exactly. My DH hunts, and takes one deer a year. We have an overpopulation in our area, and in the winter many starve with no food source. To us, it is much more humane for a doe to die quickly than starve to death in the woods. We also use all parts including bones for our dogs, so as to not waste. DH has seen many does with babies and he will come home empty handed rather than hunt a momma. That one deer will last us all winter and helps so we don’t have to buy any meat from Nov-Mar.

One thing that frustrates me is the lack of empathy toward animals and livestock. If every meat eater looked for meat/eggs raised humanely, they would eat much less of it and affect the market in a positive way, forcing farms away from horrible factory conditions.

The thing I would worry about here is how you can tell the doe doesnt have a baby-
Plenty of does will leave their offspring alone in a safe place while she goes out to forage, so the baby may not be visible and the doe may appear alone.

 

[Bakbuk]

The thing I would worry about here is how you can tell the doe doesnt have a baby-
Plenty of does will leave their offspring alone in a safe place while she goes out to forage, so the baby may not be visible and the doe may appear alone.

The babies are mostly independent by the time hunting season starts here.

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

I’m a vegan, but my boyfriend and his son are not. We are getting chickens as soon as our permit comes in and I’m so excited to be a chicken mom. I’d love to rescue, but unfortunately, we are not allowed to keep roosters and it seems that the only chickens in rescues near us are unwanted males.

I have a few young hens actually, that need a good home. I just can't keep them where I am any longer, the neglected chickens next door are just too much. (Long story!) I'm in Oregon, if there are any interested folks!

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

I wonder if you are missing protein or vitamin D? I am a former vegan, now a whole food, mostly plant based, “localtarian”. I had a bout of what I thought was depression, turns out I was way under in Vit D. I was vegan for 6 months, and just didn’t feel “right”, so I added minimal amounts of dairy & animal products, along w my new Vit D prescription, but only from local sources where I knew the animals were well kept and free to be outside. I totally commend your decision to eat vegan. I would definitely get bloodwork done just in case you are missing something. Find a vegan source of whatever you need and increase that in your diet, and add a good multivitamin if you don’t take one already!

This sounds so, so familiar.... I was exhausted, sick and tired ALL the time, even with a minimally processed, plant based diet. It wasn't until I totally eliminated refined sugar that I started feeling better, and then fantastic! Fake sugar/sweetener is just as bad if not worse! Honey in small amounts, and maple syrup. That's it now. Oooooh.....and local/ethical real cheese is now my weakness/treat

 

[BelovedBirds]

This sounds so, so familiar.... I was exhausted, sick and tired ALL the time, even with a minimally processed, plant based diet. It wasn't until I totally eliminated refined sugar that I started feeling better, and then fantastic! Fake sugar/sweetener is just as bad if not worse! Honey in small amounts, and maple syrup. That's it now. Oooooh.....and local/ethical real cheese is now my weakness/treat

I think I'm probably guilty of too many sweeteners/sugars
Honey isnt something I have an issue with as thats easily done quite ethically. I am curious about this cheese though- what do they do differently than commerical?