Vegans of BYC!!

[Bakbuk]

Honey isnt something I have an issue with as thats easily done quite ethically.

Agreed. Also the idea that honey isn't vegan makes little to no sense to me. The bees don't excrete it out of their bodies, they make it out of nectar!

 

[BelovedBirds]

Agreed. Also the idea that honey isn't vegan makes little to no sense to me. The bees don't excrete it out of their bodies, they make it out of nectar!

its just because they produce it- so because of that, it isnt considered vegan due to animal rights and avoiding exploitation, its more an ethical issue than a humane issue, and you're right that honey is pretty much plant based, just not vegan.

There are two reasons honey isnt ethical,
1. Apparently some bee keepers kill the colony (Not sure thats the right term) off at the end of the season- they also, in some circumstances, cut the wings from the queen bee. I know little, but this is info I have picked up.
2. It can affect native bee populations which could be harmful to the environment, but I'm convinced this could be okay depending on the environment, or by containing the bees to an area.

As long as bee keepers are kind and responsible about the whole thing, I just dont see an issue. Animal rights I believe in, for sure, but I am not as worried about insects specifically as long as they're still humanely treated.

I keep insects myself, cockroaches! A creature that deeply disturbs thousands, but theyre fascinating when kept in a contained space.
I bought 6 dubia roaches last year, young females. I saved em from being feeders and gave myself an interesting pet, they live in a little tank, bioactive with a very natural cluttered set up. They have thrived, I have seen them solve problems, select a favourite group sleeping hide, comfort a friend who is dying (this one shocked me), and build quite a conplex dynamic, with outsiders and group friendships. They groom a lot, very clean, and safe from illness due to captive breeding.
They have even reproduced asexually without a male (oh joy).

Because of them, I have a greater respect for insects, but I don't consider them the same level as other animals who pass very complex intelligent tests and are proven to be sentient and aware. That's my personal view.

I don't agree with harming or killing them needlessly, but I dont think the same rights apply.

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

I think I'm probably guilty of too many sweeteners/sugars
Honey isnt something I have an issue with as thats easily done quite ethically. I am curious about this cheese though- what do they do differently than commerical?

That's a fantastic question about cheese!! One I'm delighted to answer in detail. As soon as my kiddo goes to bed and I can really dig in
Believe me, quitting refined sugar is even harder than quitting smoking. No joke.

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

Agreed. Also the idea that honey isn't vegan makes little to no sense to me. The bees don't excrete it out of their bodies, they make it out of nectar!

I think it's

Is it cruel to keep dairy cows on grassy pastures? No. But, in order for cows to produce milk, they have to keep giving birth to calves.

What happens to those calves? Does the dairy owner keep them -- and have an ever-expanding herd? Sell them to someone who keeps them safe and happy? Do the male calves end up in someone's freezer?

It's the same thing I struggle with when I buy chicks, ducklings and goslings at the farm store. I KNOW that most hatchery males come to horrific ends, but I also know I don't need any more roosters, drakes or a gander. The only time I let a broody hen hatch her own eggs, she produced two live chicks -- both females. That was lucky because I don't know what I would have done with two more roosters.

I think if you have the space to raise a few goats, breed and milk them and make sure any offspring get good lives with you or elsewhere, that's different in my mind than a commercial dairy where volume is important and the bottom line is making a necessary profit in order to stay in business.

You're absolutely right about the goats! So that's part of my big "ethical cheese" thing. This amazing woman who rescues unwanted/abused goats, then to support herself and her rescue, she makes and sells this AMAZING goat cheese. Mmmmmmm.......
It's not really a secret, lol, but it's a really good place where the animals are happy. The cheese is made when extra milk is available.

 

[BelovedBirds]

I think it's

You're absolutely right about the goats! So that's part of my big "ethical cheese" thing. This amazing woman who rescues unwanted/abused goats, then to support herself and her rescue, she makes and sells this AMAZING goat cheese. Mmmmmmm.......
It's not really a secret, lol, but it's a really good place where the animals are happy. The cheese is made when extra milk is available.

thats sweet! Does she breed the goats then? Or is it only when they are rescued pregnant/with a kid? My only worry would be about the babies, but it sounds like she cares for them well.

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

its just because they produce it- so because of that, it isnt considered vegan due to animal rights and avoiding exploitation, its more an ethical issue than a humane issue, and you're right that honey is pretty much plant based, just not vegan.

There are two reasons honey isnt ethical,
1. Apparently some bee keepers kill the colony (Not sure thats the right term) off at the end of the season- they also, in some circumstances, cut the wings from the queen bee. I know little, but this is info I have picked up.
2. It can affect native bee populations which could be harmful to the environment, but I'm convinced this could be okay depending on the environment, or by containing the bees to an area.

As long as bee keepers are kind and responsible about the whole thing, I just dont see an issue. Animal rights I believe in, for sure, but I am not as worried about insects specifically as long as they're still humanely treated.

I keep insects myself, cockroaches! A creature that deeply disturbs thousands, but theyre fascinating when kept in a contained space.
I bought 6 dubia roaches last year, young females. I saved em from being feeders and gave myself an interesting pet, they live in a little tank, bioactive with a very natural cluttered set up. They have thrived, I have seen them solve problems, select a favourite group sleeping hide, comfort a friend who is dying (this one shocked me), and build quite a conplex dynamic, with outsiders and group friendships. They groom a lot, very clean, and safe from illness due to captive breeding.
They have even reproduced asexually without a male (oh joy).

Because of them, I have a greater respect for insects, but I don't consider them the same level as other animals who pass very complex intelligent tests and are proven to be sentient and aware. That's my personal view.

I don't agree with harming or killing them needlessly, but I dont think the same rights apply.

Yep. Plus, there's the whole "pure profiting off of an animal then destroying horribly it as thanks" issue, which is really messed up... However! Check this out!!

https://busybeekeeping.com/what-is-ethical-beekeeping-and-how-to-be-more-ethical/

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

Ok, about the goats!
She keeps a herd of her own milk goats which are rotated so there's no "perpetual pregnancy", allowed to raise and wean their kids, and when milked daily? One doe can produce plenty of milk for cheese making, for around 2 years! So cool. The babies are sold as pets, complete with a "right of 1st refusal contract", so she knows they're well off. When a pregnant doe is rescued, that's extra milk and a treat! I suppose I see it as a symbiotic relationship, she cares for them and loves them, in return, maybe once every 5 years they have kid(s), provide milk, companionship and love in return. Her cheese is randomly available and pricey, but she puts all the profits back into the goats.
No, it's not remotely vegan! But it's ethically done, and the animals are happy. Quality of our own lives is very important too!! It can be hard to remember that sometimes, for me at least.

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

One of the things I've enjoyed about this thread is that there is room for EVERYBODY'S beliefs and opinions. So, welcome aboard, @Sussex19!

This thread should be a safe place to express what you think without being judged or attacked. It's also been a place to share recipes and which vegan substitutes are worth the money (frozen desserts, yes!) and which are not remotely tasty (some greasy cheeses).

Since @BelovedBirds started it last year, it's been great to learn what motivates others to be vegan and how they approach veganism. I, for example, eat eggs from my own chickens, ducks and geese, who are lovingly cared for and would lay regardless of whether I ate the eggs or tossed them in the trash -- which would be a waste of protein, to me.

For a long time, I thought it was crazy that vegans didn't eat dairy products, because, after all, no animals were killed. Then, I learned more about dairy animals' lives and cut out dairy products. I don't buy leather goods anymore, I won't buy feather pillows and I try to only use vegan lines of soaps and hair care products.

No one will ever be convinced to become a vegan -- or anything else -- by being belittled or condemned. I think very few of us started out vegan, and many of us still aren't "pure" vegans. Perfection is anything is pretty darned near impossible. Some people will go on a journey that leads them to veganism; some people never will.

In the meantime, I really enjoy this thread and hope it continues to welcome all to the table.

There's just nowhere NEAR a huge enough heart for how much I love this!!!!

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

Definitely not a pure vegan here either, eat my chicken's eggs and local honey

Welcome at @Sussex19!

Want to try and make my own nut milk, anyone have any experience with this? Which nuts work best? Best way for processing?! Thanks

Ooooh.... actually I have done this! And discovered it's way better than store bought! Lol, again, more later!!

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

Oh!!!! For anyone who hasn't yet discovered it... "Nutpods" creamer is INCREDIBLE!!! They even have nut-free varieties. Some are flavored, but never sweetened. The original one tastes just like half & half!