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Not to start a debate in this thread, as it's specifically FOR vegetarian and vegan members to connect rather than for a debate on the subject, but if one has a core issue with taking life unless absolutely necessary, I wouldn't say their beliefs are based in "falsehoods and half truths" unless the assumption that eating animals kills them is somehow untrue. I am not an animal welfarist by definition. I am fully aware that not every farm is an industrial farm. I'm aware that there are animal agriculturists out there who follow responsible environmental (as much as possible) and animal welfare practices. But for me, that does not change to core issue for me at all. I do not try to "convert" people, I don't say a word when others around me are consuming animal products, and frankly I'm sick of people with traditional diets automatically assuming that I am a misinformed, condescending, morally superior dolt simply because I have a different set of beliefs then them. THAT is very offensive to ME. Especially because I DO have a significant background observing and participating in animal agriculture, including on those small family farms everyone deems morally superior, and am sick of people telling me I don't have a realistic idea of the industry when I've seen it with my own eyes and participated in it with my own hands. I have witnessed first hand everything from the struggling small time farmer and his practices to the aftermath of the industrial giants; I do not go to PETA for my information.
Lest it come up, let's avoid the "but animals die as a result of plant agriculture" speil that the position "I don't like killing if I don't have to" tends to spawn, so we can avoid in the inevitable debate about animals killed for plant production alone vs. animals killed for plant AND animal production, includng animal feed production. I'm so tired of that argument because it misses the glaring point of what we can and can't reasonably avoid; "a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion." Frankly, there is a LOT I dislike about plant agriculture, and I do my best to avoid it by growing much of my own produce, foraging, getting food from local farms, etc. but in the case of animal agriculture, I can't avoid the very direct killing of an animal when I don't need it for survival. If I wish to avoid that, it's my perrogative.
I must say, I am a little disappointed that in a thread presumably geared towards uniting vegetarian/vegan BYCers, folks still feel the need to come in here and criticize our beliefs. I would not dream of wandering into the "Meat Birds Etc." forum and criticizing their practices. Despite all the hollering I always hear about how vegans and vegetarians are pushy, I don't think I've ever come across a meat eater who, upon finding out that I was vegan, didn't feel the need tell me all about why I'm so very misinformed and misguided.
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I think you and SP have developed your viewpoints from different perspectives. I do think it seems as tho her's isn't based on facts as much as her personal viewpoint. That is fine for her, but from what I've highlighted in her post I feel like she has a distorted view of how most animals are treated on our farms. My cattle are treated well and for her to assume that they aren't just because we raise them for meat is an insult to me and every other farmer/rancher who works pretty much 365/24/7 to take care of them. Believe me if we didn't care we wouldn't be trekking out to the pens at 2 am to check on calving heifers. It is a part of how I chose to make my livlihood. That is why I responded to her post.....and since it's a public forum I'm allowed to do that.
I've never tried to "reform" a vegan or vegetarian, but I'd like to see a person's beliefs develop based on fact not fiction.
I do have a question for you tho.....are you a real vegan who uses absolutely no animal products...and I'm not just talking about your diet but your whole lifestyle. The couple of vegans I have personally met...not too many of them in my farming ranching area......claim to be vegans as they're wearing their leather shoes and belts. When asked about that their response was.....well the animal was dead anyway so it was ok. I saw a list once of all the household prouducts that we use every day that contain animal products that 99% of people would never guess....including toothbrushes.
