Vegetarian and/or vegan members of BYC!

[squeakyballs]

Quote:
Wait, she knows the person that makes Bragg's? Wow!

Bragg's Amino Acids taste like soy sauce. Spray it on a veggie stir fry... pretty good.

My favorite recipe with it is Breaded Tofu. Thinly slice the tofu, squish out the water, and spray with Amino acid. Dip in eggs, then in bread crumbs mixed with Nutritional Yeast (another yummy thing), then spray again. Bake at about 400 until it is crispy. Mmm...

 

[Carols Clucks]

Thanks!

I will have to try that. Today was a sermon by the Director of Braggs (the one that dropped off the goodie bag) Dr Westerdahl.

My dad was BIG time in to Alt Health and spent a lot of time talking about the subject. We have lots of older alt health books she is donating to Pat Braggs Library

 

[GallusGal]

I could care less what a person chooses to eat and believe me I'll never try and "convert" anyone to eat meat, but to condem a whole industry because of your personal beliefs....especially when it is based on falsehoods and half truths....is very offensive to me and anyone else who raises livestock for the meat industry.

Not to start a debate in this thread, as it's specifically FOR vegetarian and vegan members to connect rather than for a debate on the subject, but if one has a core issue with taking life unless absolutely necessary, I wouldn't say their beliefs are based in "falsehoods and half truths" unless the assumption that eating animals kills them is somehow untrue.

I am not an animal welfarist by definition. I am fully aware that not every farm is an industrial farm. I'm aware that there are animal agriculturists out there who follow responsible environmental (as much as possible) and animal welfare practices. But for me, that does not change to core issue for me at all. I do not try to "convert" people, I don't say a word when others around me are consuming animal products, and frankly I'm sick of people with traditional diets automatically assuming that I am a misinformed, condescending, morally superior dolt simply because I have a different set of beliefs then them. THAT is very offensive to ME.... especially because I DO have a significant background observing and participating in animal agriculture, including on those small family farms everyone deems morally superior, and am sick of people telling me I don't have a realistic idea of the industry when I've seen it with my own eyes and participated in it with my own hands. I have witnessed first hand everything from the struggling small time farmer and his practices to the aftermath of the industrial giants; I do not go to PETA for my information.

Lest it come up, let's avoid the "but animals die as a result of plant agriculture" speil that the position "I don't like killing if I don't have to" tends to spawn, so we can avoid in the inevitable debate about animals killed for plant production alone vs. animals killed for plant AND animal production, includng animal feed production. I'm so tired of that argument because it misses the glaring point of what we can and can't reasonably avoid; "a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion." Frankly, there is a LOT I dislike about plant agriculture, and I do my best to avoid it by growing much of my own produce, foraging, getting food from local farms, etc. but in the case of animal agriculture, I can't avoid the very direct killing of an animal when I don't need it for survival. If I wish to avoid that, it's my perrogative.

I must say, I am a little disappointed that in a thread presumably geared towards uniting vegetarian/vegan BYCers, folks still feel the need to come in here and criticize our beliefs. I would not dream of wandering into the "Meat Birds Etc." forum and criticizing their practices. Despite all the hollering I always hear about how vegans and vegetarians are pushy, I don't think I've ever come across a meat eater who, upon finding out that I was vegan, didn't feel the need tell me all about why I'm so very misinformed and misguided.​

 

[artsyrobin]

i discovered something that really surprized me- i am diabetic, and since shifting closer to vegetarian, my bloodsugar is in normal ranges- wow- that is so cool! and current fav food is sauteing tofu, tossing in some frozen vegies and sprinkle with either lemon pepper or garlic pepper.. AND it is easier on the budget- a package of tofu goes a long way- and here is a neat site- http://www.lbveg.com/

 

[GallusGal]

That's great, artsy! Even without a vegan/vegetarian diet, most diabetics can greatly benefit from eating a diet with greater fiber, which tends to come with the territory of being vegetarian or vegan. The simplified version of it is that fiber helps to slow sugar absorption, so rather than the "boom and burst" blood sugar patterns typical of moden Western diets (high protein, high sugar, highly processed, minimal fiber), you have a lower level even flow of sugar the way the human body was intended to.

Also: if you like tofu, you should try tempeh

Good protein source and since it is a fermented source of soy, it lacks the antinutrients prevelent in unfermented soy products. Plus it has a very unique texture and flavor that stands up on its own (whereas I find with tofu, one generally needs to heavily season to give it any unique flavor). It's not for everyone but if you happen to like it, I bet you will be looking for ways to throw it into as many recipes as possible.

 

[artsyrobin]

Quote:
i'll have to look for tempeh- living in a small town has its challenges! i grew up in san diego and natural foods were easy to come by- oklahoma however is a bit more challenging!

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Not to start a debate in this thread, as it's specifically FOR vegetarian and vegan members to connect rather than for a debate on the subject, but if one has a core issue with taking life unless absolutely necessary, I wouldn't say their beliefs are based in "falsehoods and half truths" unless the assumption that eating animals kills them is somehow untrue. I am not an animal welfarist by definition. I am fully aware that not every farm is an industrial farm. I'm aware that there are animal agriculturists out there who follow responsible environmental (as much as possible) and animal welfare practices. But for me, that does not change to core issue for me at all. I do not try to "convert" people, I don't say a word when others around me are consuming animal products, and frankly I'm sick of people with traditional diets automatically assuming that I am a misinformed, condescending, morally superior dolt simply because I have a different set of beliefs then them. THAT is very offensive to ME. Especially because I DO have a significant background observing and participating in animal agriculture, including on those small family farms everyone deems morally superior, and am sick of people telling me I don't have a realistic idea of the industry when I've seen it with my own eyes and participated in it with my own hands. I have witnessed first hand everything from the struggling small time farmer and his practices to the aftermath of the industrial giants; I do not go to PETA for my information.

Lest it come up, let's avoid the "but animals die as a result of plant agriculture" speil that the position "I don't like killing if I don't have to" tends to spawn, so we can avoid in the inevitable debate about animals killed for plant production alone vs. animals killed for plant AND animal production, includng animal feed production. I'm so tired of that argument because it misses the glaring point of what we can and can't reasonably avoid; "a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion." Frankly, there is a LOT I dislike about plant agriculture, and I do my best to avoid it by growing much of my own produce, foraging, getting food from local farms, etc. but in the case of animal agriculture, I can't avoid the very direct killing of an animal when I don't need it for survival. If I wish to avoid that, it's my perrogative.

I must say, I am a little disappointed that in a thread presumably geared towards uniting vegetarian/vegan BYCers, folks still feel the need to come in here and criticize our beliefs. I would not dream of wandering into the "Meat Birds Etc." forum and criticizing their practices. Despite all the hollering I always hear about how vegans and vegetarians are pushy, I don't think I've ever come across a meat eater who, upon finding out that I was vegan, didn't feel the need tell me all about why I'm so very misinformed and misguided.

Quote:
I think you and SP have developed your viewpoints from different perspectives. I do think it seems as tho her's isn't based on facts as much as her personal viewpoint. That is fine for her, but from what I've highlighted in her post I feel like she has a distorted view of how most animals are treated on our farms. My cattle are treated well and for her to assume that they aren't just because we raise them for meat is an insult to me and every other farmer/rancher who works pretty much 365/24/7 to take care of them. Believe me if we didn't care we wouldn't be trekking out to the pens at 2 am to check on calving heifers. It is a part of how I chose to make my livlihood. That is why I responded to her post.....and since it's a public forum I'm allowed to do that.

I've never tried to "reform" a vegan or vegetarian, but I'd like to see a person's beliefs develop based on fact not fiction.

I do have a question for you tho.....are you a real vegan who uses absolutely no animal products...and I'm not just talking about your diet but your whole lifestyle. The couple of vegans I have personally met...not too many of them in my farming ranching area......claim to be vegans as they're wearing their leather shoes and belts. When asked about that their response was.....well the animal was dead anyway so it was ok. I saw a list once of all the household prouducts that we use every day that contain animal products that 99% of people would never guess....including toothbrushes.

 

[GallusGal]

I do have a question for you tho.....are you a real vegan who uses absolutely no animal products...and I'm not just talking about your diet but your whole lifestyle. ... I saw a list once of all the household prouducts that we use every day that contain animal products that 99% of people would never guess....including toothbrushes

Here's where things get sticky. True idealogical veganism is more than just abstaining from using animal products, contrary to the popular belief of... everyone who isn't an ideological vegan it seems. Right now, my moral values are in something of a toss-up due to some recent changes in my life. Previously, I had aligned as an ethical vegan, which is an anti-exploitation moral paradigm - nothing more, nothing less, and definitely nothing PETA presents it to be. Right now I'm... confused and depressed.

But if your definition of a "real vegan" is someone who avoids using animal products, then yes, I am a "real vegan."

As for that list... I've seen such lists myself, and one needs to take them with a grain of salt. They were created by people with an agenda, namely people trying to suggest that if you can't avoid EVERYTHING there's no point in avoid ANYTHING when it comes to animal products. Many of the products they list as "containing animal products" are actually products that may contain animal products, depending on the source. Saying all toothbrushes contain animal products is about as false as saying all shirts do simply because wool shirts exist.

I personally have never been a fan of the aforementioned "if you can't avoid it all why avoid any" argument. It doesn't reall stand up to a reasonable person's moral processing in any other context. For example, child labor and human ensalvement exist, and chances are very good SOMETHING that you use is in some way indirectly linked to one or the other unless you produce 100% of what you eat and wear. Does this mean that it is hypocritical to oppose child labor/human slavery, and does it make it morally permissible to knowingly use products that were definitely produced using those methods?

At the end of the day, my goal is to follow my moral beliefs to the best of my ability, and I do put fourth the effort to avoid things I oppose in general - not just in regards to animals - to the extent that is reasonably possible in a very complex consumer society.​

 

[Katy]

Thanks for answering.....I guess I've always heard vegan described as using no animal products whatsoever which is what makes them different than a vegetarian.

I'm sure you're right about the lists....which is why I take everything I read with more than a grain of salt! I know there were a lot of things on the list that surprised me, but for some odd reason the toothbrushes stuck in my head.

All any of us can do at the end of the day is follow what we feel is right for us. It just upsets me when all of one group (we farmers/rancher for example) are thrown together to justify how a person feels about something. If you feel that killing an animal is wrong, then it needs to be because that's how you truely feel deep down in your heart.....not based on saying well, all meat animals are treated horribly by the people who raise them and have terrible lives so I'm not going to eat meat and no one else should either. Base your feelings on the truth, not fiction.

 

[artsyrobin]

i got to wondering about the leftovers when you make soymilk, is that something the chickens can eat??

All any of us can do at the end of the day is follow what we feel is right for us.

yes- choosing to be vegetarian is not something to ram down folks throat- but i have to look at myself in the mirror at night, and want to know i did what i believe is right- generalizations are not good- in my home, I am veg hubby is not- he has no qualms eating fried chicken, thats his choice- i don't understand how you can after getting to know our chickens- but it is a personal judgment call- i could go on and on...but i won't