Video of integration: bullying or normal behavior?

[ljkraemer]

Hi all,
I have 4 2-yo hens. I just got 2 3-month old bantam hens (Cochin/silkie mix, pure white, one with red face, one with black face). We keep them separated during the day. At night, the little girls sleep in the coop with the big girls, and all is fine. I had been waking up at 615am each morning to separate the new girls from the old (keep 2 in the extended run/the others in the coop/run or vice versa). Well, I decided to see how it would go if I just let them be in the morning until 8am. The last two mornings, I’ve watched on the video playback, there is a LOT of chasing, pecking, pulling feathers, chasing the new girls into corners, etc. I’m sharing a video clip below to show what it looks like. This is my first time integrating new birds and I don’t know if what I’m seeing is normal. I should note two things: one, I know their water is filthy as it’s from the day before and will get changed as soon as I go out there in the am, and two, the red faced bird seems to be getting the brunt of the abuse.

Our older girls free range in our fenced in backyard around 3-4 hours a day. The coop is 4x4, covered run is 4x8 and extended run is 4x10.

Any advice is welcome! I know there’s normal pecking order determining that needs to happen, but I kind of thought, once the hens establish who’s in charge, they’d be done with it…

Edited to add: there are 3 feed stations, 2 water stations, a low board that only the little girls can fit under, 4 roosting bars in the runs. We’ve had them for 5 days and have kept them separated all the time except for nights and these last two mornings, for 2 hours in the morning (from wake up til about 8am).

Video link here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jiMikxh5TBigTI83qF0a3p8luSUh1c0h/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[azygous]

To make a video embed here, post it first to You Tube and copy the URL and post that here. It's a nifty feature of BYC software.

Back to the dynamics of integration. Understanding basics of chicken behavior helps when integrating younger new chickens to an established flock of older birds. The most basic rule is younger newer chickens will be wary and even fearful of the existing older flock. Fear, if not handled adequately can result in permanent negative temperament change, setting the fearful chicken up for chronic bullying as fear triggers bullying.

Therefore, to prevent this, it's best to take integration slowly and carefully to give the newer birds time to adjust and to learn the temperaments of the home flock. The old method of "see but no touch" is hard to improve upon for this. You will install the new chickens in a sectioned off portion of the run so they can observe the home flock while still remaining safe. Food and water is provided so that the new chickens remain well fed and watered as opposed to being bullied away from these essentials.

It takes a few days to a week for the new ones to observe and learn what they need to know about the older chickens. After that, you can gradually let them all mingle, short periods at first, then increasing the time each day. You will observe this progress and return the new ones to their safe haven when the bullying appears to be overwhelming them. You want to avoid having the new ones come to believe that their job in the flock is to be bullied.

This process shouldn't take long for the new chickens to become comfortable as new flock members. Be sure to provide lots of space and complexity in the run so bullied chickens can find safety on extra perches or behind strategically placed objects. Most important, provide numerous feeding and watering stations so new birds don't become health compromised.

 

[saysfaa]

...Any advice is welcome! I know there’s normal pecking order determining that needs to happen, but I kind of thought, once the hens establish who’s in charge, they’d be done with it…

Deciding who is in charge happens after they decide they are all part of the same flock. Right now, I think the hens are defending their territory from chickens of another flock. It is quite common for a flock to kill an interloper.

It is possible that they have gotten as far as deciding they are all the same flock. Then the hens will expect the pullets to give way whenever the hen indicates they should. This looks like what the red hen is doing when she looks at the pullet (first indication), when she moves her head toward the pullet (a stronger indication)... at these levels, it often doesn't take much response for the pullet to acknowledge the hen's position..., when she steps toward the pullet with her head in that position (strong indication), when she lifts her wings and runs at the pullet (very strong indication).

The stronger the message send, the stronger the response needed for the hen to understand the pullet is agreeing to not challenge the hen.

The pullet can respond with things such as looking away, turning away, moving away, running away.

This pullet was already doing everything she could to signal she was not challenging the hen. The hen felt challenged anyway. The hen doesn't allow for how much the pullet can do.

It is, of course, much messier than this. Some hens are just better at managing relationships. Some are more confident. And so on.

And this is about just the flash point interaction.

 

[Brooks_]

It's just so small. The pullet has nowhere to go.

 

[ljkraemer]

Thanks all for the responses so far. I will take things more slowly as these are the sweetest birds and I don’t want my rush to integrate them, ruin them. Since I posted this morning, I’ve changed the extended run. I added a partition that has metal bars with about 1” space (from an old rabbit hutch). The partition goes from top to bottom, so the hens are fully separated. We’ll be intentional about sprinkling treats (mealworms) along this barrier to get the hens to eat near each other. We’ll still let them free range for short times to mingle together, and lengthen this time as time goes on. My big question that I still don’t know how to handle nights. Do I still keep the habit of putting the pullets in at night after dark, and getting up at sunrise to separate them soon after wake up? Or for now, can they sleep in their extended pen? It’s predator proof, but not dark and cozy.

 

[McChooky]

Deciding who is in charge happens after they decide they are all part of the same flock. Right now, I think the hens are defending their territory from chickens of another flock. It is quite common for a flock to kill an interloper.

It is possible that they have gotten as far as deciding they are all the same flock. Then the hens will expect the pullets to give way whenever the hen indicates they should. This looks like what the red hen is doing when she looks at the pullet (first indication), when she moves her head toward the pullet (a stronger indication)... at these levels, it often doesn't take much response for the pullet to acknowledge the hen's position..., when she steps toward the pullet with her head in that position (strong indication), when she lifts her wings and runs at the pullet (very strong indication).

The stronger the message send, the stronger the response needed for the hen to understand the pullet is agreeing to not challenge the hen.

The pullet can respond with things such as looking away, turning away, moving away, running away.

This pullet was already doing everything she could to signal she was not challenging the hen. The hen felt challenged anyway. The hen doesn't allow for how much the pullet can do.

It is, of course, much messier than this. Some hens are just better at managing relationships. Some are more confident. And so on.

And this is about just the flash point interaction.

I agree, this has the potential for disaster. A narrow run gives a cornered bird no room to escape.

 

[ljkraemer]

So, if I’m reading your response correctly, in the video I posted, the hen was in a bullying mode. The pulley had shown submission but the hen kept going. There’s no blood but should I still intervene when I see it “go this far”? The poor pulley stayed in that ending position for 6 minutes.

Deciding who is in charge happens after they decide they are all part of the same flock. Right now, I think the hens are defending their territory from chickens of another flock. It is quite common for a flock to kill an interloper.

It is possible that they have gotten as far as deciding they are all the same flock. Then the hens will expect the pullets to give way whenever the hen indicates they should. This looks like what the red hen is doing when she looks at the pullet (first indication), when she moves her head toward the pullet (a stronger indication)... at these levels, it often doesn't take much response for the pullet to acknowledge the hen's position..., when she steps toward the pullet with her head in that position (strong indication), when she lifts her wings and runs at the pullet (very strong indication).

The stronger the message send, the stronger the response needed for the hen to understand the pullet is agreeing to not challenge the hen.

The pullet can respond with things such as looking away, turning away, moving away, running away.

This pullet was already doing everything she could to signal she was not challenging the hen. The hen felt challenged anyway. The hen doesn't allow for how much the pullet can do.

It is, of course, much messier than this. Some hens are just better at managing relationships. Some are more confident. And so on.

And this is about just the flash point interaction

 

[ljkraemer]

I agree, this has the potential for disaster. A narrow run gives a cornered bird no room to escape.

Is 4’ really that narrow? It’s 4 hens and 2 bantams. Honestly asking…

 

[LaFleche]

They need to be separated from the big bullies or they might get drowned in the water dish next time they try to escape the beating.

Silky-mixes don't look like normal chickens your hens would recognize as being of their own kind.
Sadly, Silkies, Polish etc. often get seriously injured and even pecked to death by standard chickens, as they will not accept them as flock members because of their strange looks.

If you want to keep them safe, get them their own coop and run.

ETA: Crested birds like Silkies or their mixes can be seriously injured when pecked hard on their head because of their often vaulted skull.

 

[Brooks_]

Is 4’ really that narrow? It’s 4 hens and 2 bantams. Honestly asking…

What's the total square footage? Did it appear that the little one had much space to get away?