Video: Reba Squat-Walks ~Update ~ RIP, Beautiful Reba

[speckledhen]

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Not sure what is wrong with your girl. Being broody, she could have a vitamin deficiency as they barely eat and drink for weeks. The molt is normal for a broody--the restricted diet does that to them. I hope your girl snaps out of it. At least, I do know what is wrong with Reba, though there may be more going on than I'm even aware of inside of her. Since she is the only one here who has ever had this walking thing accompanying the internal laying and her intestines are also affected, I'd like to open her up to see what went on in there. Not sure DH will do it-this is his girl and he is so soft hearted, that some of them, he hates to do that to, even though it's been so educational over the years.

ETA: I fear today is the day for Reba to leave us after checking on her this morning.

She fought the good fight, but this dang internal laying crud always wins.

 

[laney59]

thank you for your reply. Hopefully you will have gathered some new knowledge through all of this with reba. I'm sorry for her struggle.
I am new to this forum...actually ANY forum, ha! So not sure I am doing this right. I only rcvd a reply from you to my question. hoping someone might know about the "squat walking" thing. Should I repost? or....
Thank you again so much
Newbie

 

[speckledhen]

You can certainly start your own thread, sure. I'm pretty sure that whatever has built up in Reba's oviducts is pressing on nerves and making walking difficult for her. It's just a secondary symptom of her primary internal laying issue. Of course, it's the internal laying that will kill her, as it has numerous other hatchery hens of mine. The breeder types don't really seem to have this issue, not to this high incidence.

 

[HorseFeatherz NV]

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I hope it is peaceful for her. My thoughts are with you and your DH.


I have always admired you for opening up and examining your girls, but I can totally understand your DH. I can butcher and eat birds that I lov and raise, yet for some reason have such a hard time doing a necropsy on a beloved pet who has passed. - I know, silly me.

for peace for Reba

 

[OrpingtonHopeful]

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I think we are going through this here as well- We lost of BO suddenly a year ago and now we have a RIR who I am almost certain is an internal layer. I am so sorry that you are going through this- I would love to learn more about your thoughts on hatchery vs breeder in regards to this and further how to find a good breeder- All if my gals were ordered from the feed store who, in turn, ordered from Ideal. As we have only had 6 birds and now it looks like 2 of those 6 have suffered from this- I would prefer to decrease such chances in the future.

Also, I cannot imagine that there is anything we could change in the rearing of them to decrease this possibility (I know you are really wise about chickens!) but I wonder if there are any behaviors, foods, etc that could possibly effect the likelihood of having a chicken become an internal layer...

 

[Moochie]

 

[speckledhen]

We got home awhile ago and surprisingly, she is still hanging on. She shifted her position to face the waterer, but her color is very dark now. She's a tough old girl, that Reba. If she's here in the a.m., I'll be shocked.


The only hint that something may be of slight use in preventing internal laying was a study of flax seed, however, mine have had that on occasion in their feed and it didn't seem to change anything. Could be it must be given from chickhood, in certain proportions and it still may not be able to offset bad genetics. It is certainly beneficial to their diet in any case. I believe it was my Reba's and Ivy's overall glowing good health from proper management that kept them alive and fighting this as long as they were able. Ivy came back from the brink twice, both times producing an egg or two, but the third time, she couldn't win the fight. So, really, all you can do is make them as generally healthy as you can and get stock from the best places you can from the outset.

Of all the internal layers I've had (I think there have been ten or eleven, all told), only one was not a direct hatchery hen, Olivia. She was the daughter of a hatchery BR mother. The ones from true breeders, meaning they have been breeding for years and did not get their stock from a hatchery, either, have never died from internal laying. That includes Ameraucanas, Orpingtons and Delawares. Even my hens who are several generations removed from the hatchery don't seem to have the same issues.

 

[Suzie]

SpeckledHen....

I have been reading this thread and all I can say is that I hope for you that Reba passes peacefully....

I have never known anyone on this site that I admire so much as you and your DH for all of the knowledge that you have imparted to so many of us - I have been following your threads on BYC since I joined this amazing site and I among so many of us will never forget Ivy and your loving care and determination in keeping her and her and her companions as happy and healthy as you have done - despite the internal laying problems.

Thinking of you constantly.....


Suzie

 

[speckledhen]

Suzie, thank you, you are too kind. We don't know it all, never have, and some of the experience we have is experience we'd just as soon not have, if you know what I mean. I don't know yet if he will be up to opening her up when she passes to see what the heck happened in there, but I would like to see how it may have been different from the others. Reba was the only hen to squat walk, the only one who had trouble passing waste. There may be nothing we can discern once we get in there that is any different than the rest, but if there is, I'd like to put it in my bag of knowledge for the next time, if, God forbid, there is a next time.

 

[speckledhen]

Reba died about an hour ago, peacefully and quietly. We decided on the spur of the moment, next to her grave, to open up her abdomen to see if there was anything different about this situation than with all the other internal layers since she was the only one to squat-walk and the only one to have trouble passing waste. We did not take pictures since this wasn't a planned necropsy and we weren't sure it would show anything unusual, no more so than we'd found in any other hen suspected of internal laying.

Amazingly, we found that though she did have some of the classic cheesy egg gunk in her oviduct and the usual fluid, that was secondary to the real issue: Reba died of ovarian carcinoma. Her oviduct was blocked with a large fibroid mass. We could barely find any intestines and the entire oviduct and intestinal walls were covered in tiny little tumor-like balls.

Upon doing a short bit of research, we hit paydirt. This site has a fabulous set of simple articles, one of which described what we found inside of Reba to a "T": http://www.farmanimalshelters.org/care_buckeye.htm

Here is the part that applies to Reba's condition. Remember, Reba was a production RIR from Ideal Poultry who would have been six years old in January, so quite old for a hatchery hen:

Bolded parts apply to what we found inside Reba and what was happening to her. There was another article on fibroid tumors in hens being very common as well, though we already knew that, we'd never found one inside an oviduct before this.

Ovarian Carcinoma:

After finding this during necropsy and doing a little research, it was discovered that is the most common tumor of unknown origin in hens. It is associated with advancing age, which is why most vets are not exposed to it. Often fluid will accumulate in the abdomen. As the tumors spread, the intestine becomes constricted and the hens become emaciated. At necropsy there are countless white, firm tumors on the surfaces of the intestinal wall and oviduct. Birds that are forced into laying by additional light sources had an increased incidence of the tumors. In the experience of one poultry disease researcher, "birds began to die at 3 ½ years of age, and all had died of ovarian carcinoma by 9 years of age." (Helmboldt and Fredrickson, Diseases of Poultry 6th edition) Since most production birds are not allowed to live that long, it is not commonly seen. We have not been able to find any treatment that will reverse or stabilize this condition. Because the hens at Farm Sanctuary are treated, and have a much longer life-span then they ever would in a factory, we are seeing this more often. To keep the hens more comfortable, we drain the fluids in their abdomens when necessary.​