Trust me, I've tried the quiet talking. The girls are fine, but DS (8) loves to ignore me, and honestly, we don't really have any toys or tv to take away from him... he acts just like a teen, and at the same time, thinks his behavior is hilarious. He wrote on his little sister with an indelible poster marker.... which has yet to wash off.... and I am just really sick of saying ANYTHING to him. We were at worship today, and he decided it would be funny to 'fall' flat on the floor in the aisle... on purpose. grabbing crayons away from his sisters.... sticking the crayons (not OUR crayons) into his sock... not funny. I can't spank him (he's way too big) I can't yell, since it doesn't accomplish anything, and i can't reason with him, since he already knows he shouldn't be doing it... as far as punishment, I can take away his PSP, but we don't have any cable, he doesn't usually have friends over, he doesn't love talking on the phone yet.... he has his pets, but they are his responsibility, and I don't think taking away his responsibilities will teach him anything. It's as much for me as anything... I'm sick of talking when nobody listens. what is the point?