Vote Yes on Proposition 2

[onthespot]

does not change the facts that they will take a total loss on all their current equipment, if it is next year or the next or 2014 or 2015. Which ever year they do it, it will be a complete loss on their old, fully funcitonal equipment.

How would you like it if do gooders decided your house, car and clothes were all too small/ugly, politically incorrect and you had to buldoze your home, burn you clothes and scrap your car. Start over, financially, starting... NOW! or by 2015... how would you like that done to you?

 

[silkiechicken]

If you can only put 1/5th of the birds in a building, you get 1/5th of the eggs. Equipment is already paid for, and upkeep is usually nominal for the "return". Cleaning must be automated for a floor system too since caring for 20k chickens is harder than 20. If let free range or are let to roam, pred losses could be an issue and you need a whole new protection system. Biosecurity in open plans can also be a problem.

I can see both sides of the story, and despite not being in cali, I don't favor prop 2.

If people want change, do it from the bottom, buy the cage free eggs for 3.99 on sale instead of the 1.99 ones at the supermarket. It probably won't affect most of us too bad directly since we have enough money to be on the internet, but it will affect those who can't afford computers, can't afford to eat half the time, and are scraping by to live, since eggs are used in many products and if their commodity price goes up, so does everything they are used in.

You get what you pay for and if you just can't pay it, what are you going to do besides have a few years of gov't bail out and be sent on your way?

 

[onthespot]

and don't for one second think the next move won't be to declare chicken waste biohazardous and outlaw free ranging, require waste recovery systems (read: "diapers") on 20,000 free ranging chickens, which must be changed every four hours to be considered humane.

CHECX MATE!

 

[DawnSuiter]

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I like the idea of starting at the bottom... I mean.. seems like everything is legislated now days... and some industries have become so secure that they are not even affected by "supply & demand".. we should avoid more industries becoming that way.

I pay for the extra cost of everything as often as I possibly can... we will eat less some weeks to buy organic foods, but those weeks where its 'processed food or no food' we go with the non organic choices

 

[Birdman18]

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Birdman,

Yes we know this is America and yes WE ARE AWAKE! We all have our point of views. I am a major animal lover myself and I do feel sorry for those animals. But right now, as our economy is falling, we have to think of ourselves now. We most likely can't afford the help these animals right now. How would those factory farms be able to pay for the extra space? The point of cramming them is to get more eggs from minimal space. Yes I know they are cramped and are in horrible conditions, but you have to look at it from the perspective of the person who makes a living from that. Would you want to risk that person and/or their family not getting a meal, home, etc. by closing their factory? "Take Time To Think" (4 T's) See things from every point of view.

There shouldn't be any excuse for treating animals badly, the factory farms can still make a living if they free range, and plus they wouldnt have to purchase cage equipment and housing. I try to see everyone's point of view but i'm on the animal on this one. And look at the benefits from free range, their feed bill will go down because the chickens are eating more natural matter in the open spaces so less feed would be necessary.

 

[Western Chick]

Quote:
Birdman,

Yes we know this is America and yes WE ARE AWAKE! We all have our point of views. I am a major animal lover myself and I do feel sorry for those animals. But right now, as our economy is falling, we have to think of ourselves now. We most likely can't afford the help these animals right now. How would those factory farms be able to pay for the extra space? The point of cramming them is to get more eggs from minimal space. Yes I know they are cramped and are in horrible conditions, but you have to look at it from the perspective of the person who makes a living from that. Would you want to risk that person and/or their family not getting a meal, home, etc. by closing their factory? "Take Time To Think" (4 T's) See things from every point of view.

There shouldn't be any excuse for treating animals badly, the factory farms can still make a living if they free range, and plus they wouldnt have to purchase cage equipment and housing. I try to see everyone's point of view but i'm on the animal on this one. And look at the benefits from free range, their feed bill will go down because the chickens are eating more natural matter in the open spaces so less feed would be necessary.

Birdman, I'm sure you always elect to purchase free-range, organic and humanely treated groceries,

 

[silkiechicken]

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Still need to hire people to collect eggs, that costs more than machines.

Need to make safe fences and protect from preds and deal with not being able to keep the place biosecure. Losses from preds, upkeep of bigger areas = more money. Lose flock to disease from one bird dropping or a wild animal kills them = more loss. Houses were made in the first place to keep them safe, it has just gotten farther than first imagined when it was first implemented. We can't kill all the preds or remove migratory birds from free ranging flocks.

Feed will probably be more. Birds in any sort of run at any economical concentration = decimate the veggitation. Free range = expend more energy to keep warm/ keep cool. It may go down in a personal backyard, but look at our average cost per dozen eggs. My eggs raw cost are about 3 a dozen. Add shipping, man power, and so on... that's a lot of money for the majority of people to pay for eggs.

 

[kinnip]

I'm all for treating animals well, very well. I'm against legislating anything. One size fits all never works. The amount of money that's already been tossed at this idea combined with the money that will be used to enforce the law, should it pass, would be better used to help educate people, and to make home poultry keeping more accessible. It's easy to forget that other people are grown-ups too and fully capable of making up their own mind about what to buy. Sometimes they don't decide the way we would decide, but often that's because they lack information or feel that they have no choice. Education and options not legislation!

 

[Barnyard Dawg]

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I would get started now!

 

[onthespot]

very well, then. I look forward to pics of your new home, clothing and transportation.