Walking difficulties - need some advice

[Hen Pecked honey]

Happy 4th everyone....

I had my 3 new 4 month old girls enclosed in the yard today but I noticed one of them was laying on the grass more than the others when I went to put her back in her coop I noticed she was not walking well. She seems to walk as if she was drunk. One foot stepping on the other, tripping and then stepping on her wing. I have now placed her in a seperate cage in the garage. Poop seems normal I am not sure about the appetitate and drinking yet. I have gone though so many postings but I can't seem to find a similar post. Her toes are not curled or deformed. She seemed to be in very good health and spirits this last week. She is fed Starter food and oranges. Fresh water daily, of course the next morning there may be poop in it but I clean it out and replace.

I am very concerned since these new birds just introduced with my existing flock. I kept them in quarantine for over a month to make sure they are healthy. I have built a seperate quarter for the new girls that is raised off the floor. This way the new girls and the existing girls will get to know each other. I hope that this bird has not infected my existing flock.

My vet is closed tomorrow... Any suggestions?

 

[threehorses]

My first suggestions are to rule out as many things as possible.

First, at her age she should be on a starter grower or a grower (preferably a layer-grower if she's intended to be a layer or pet). Is it possible that she's on starter/grower? If not, I'd graduate her and the other gals to the next feed. Then get ready at five months to start boosting their calcium/D3 intake for when they transition to layer. (Oyster shell free choice, yogurt weekly, at five months). Also be careful about the amount of citrus that you provide. It acidifies the gut but all good things in moderation.

Second, I'd rule out parasites. Parasites such as mites can take a bird down very quickly to an anemic state causing her to act as she is. it's best to check the bird at night as some mites only get on the birds at night. Check with a flashlight over a light colored sheet. (You can turn the lights on.) Check especially carefully on the back of the neck and vent area. Check all the girls. If you see any, you must treat with a permethrin on the birds and also the premises. You can also treat wormed birds for mites with ivermectin and spray-ons, but you still must always treat the premises including the cracks in wood of the building itself, etc. More on this if they turn out to have mites etc.

Third, heat. Heat problems will cause a bird to do this. Make sure they get good ventilation and breezes especially if in a coop.

Fourth, food: feel her weight and determine if she's underweight by checking her "keel score". Her keel (breast bone) should be neither too prominent nor too covered. It should be quite like the keel of a rounded boat where the keel is evident but neither jutting nor spatula-like. There should be breast meat on both sides. If she's being bullied a bit, and got hot, that could cause her ataxia.

In all cases, boost her nutrition while in confinement so that you can help her in this stress. Any time a bird is stressed, their beneficial bacterial load will decrease. So give her some yogurt daily. Adding boiled mashed eggs to her morning diet will give her some rich nutrition as well. Make sure she has lots of her starter.

Also now that I remember, feel her crop first thing in the morning to make sure it emptied overnight. If it hasn't, and feels full (and mushy), then let us know.

This should get you started.

p.s. It's possible that she's fighting something that the other girls have introduced. In that case, the nutritional boost will help her through this as well. I forgot to mention that you could (and probably should) also give her some vitamins/minerals either in a good poultry package every other day, or using Enfamil Baby vitamins (polyvisol non-iron from CVS is recommended by quite a few people here) at a rate of 3 drops per day in the mouth. Of the two, I'd recommend the drops as they provide the oil vitamins which don't do as well in water/vitamin packages.

 

[Hen Pecked honey]

Thanks...

She is still wabbly this morning....

First - they are on Radco Natural chick starter crumbles - 20% with added vitamins and minerals. I think she ate some last night.

I checked this morning for parasites and did not see anything. I had taken the girls to the vet two weeks ago and he did not see any then. I will check tonight.

Coop is ventilated and it was only about 80 degrees yesterday with a cool breeze.

Here keel seemed fine. Just like the other girls.

I gave her the yogurt this morning with egg and starter. She ate some. I will continue to feed her thoughout the day. My DH is going to the store to get a baby dropper so that I can give her water and he is buying the vitamins. There was some food in the crop this morning but I did not get up until 9am (slept in). It did not seem hard or mushy.

Poop seems normal.

 

[threehorses]

Well the rest of this sounds pretty good - no food storage in the crop necessarily - good. She ate the goodies - very good, and the vitamins will help at least in a broad way if not specifically. If you can, also have him get vitamin E (the ones around 400IU). There is vitamin E in the enfamil, but if this is neurological extra vitamin E will be indicated. If not, it can wait as at least she'll be getting some in the non-iron vitamins.

Good about the parasites at least, and I'm particularly glad to hear about her weight (although it makes this more puzzling).

Be on sharp lookout for any other little clues or changes that might have happened about a week before this to a couple of days. Usually small things that seem insignificant can be quite important.

There's still the possibility that she's picked up something from the other flock.

The new birds and old birds - from where did they come? A feedstore, hatchery, private supplier? Do you know which of the two flocks might be vaccinated for Marek's?

And I'm not familiar with Radco, but am curious. I see it's available in California but I can't find an ingredients sheet on it. Is it an 'organic' or 'natural' type food, or traditional? In other words, is it a medicated feed or does it instead have a series of probiotics listed as the last ingredients on the bag? If so, could you tell me if there's anything about live culture, or if it's fermentation products? I'd like to know more about it in case the feed comes up again in discussion. Thanks!

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

I am puzzled as to why you feed oranges to chickens?

the fact that many claim citurs is harmful to chickens
I would not feed her any more oranges

makes me wonder is she has a botulism effect from the oranges you fed her

thus would need to put 1 tbsp of epsom salts in pint of water for her to drink

then get the wet mash probiotics for her for two weeks
any questions email me

 

[threehorses]

I had to read up on oranges a long time ago because there were mixed claims about it in diets.

From what I gathered, it's acceptable to use in small portions. But really it's quite acidic (and not in a beneficial way like apples) and anything that changes the pH of a gut too much (too basic or too acidic) can be problematic.

I know some people who actually swear by giving a very small amount daily to exotics, but their constitution is more sympathetic to fruits. So I would do no more than weekly in my opinion.

Better choices for keeping the gut healthy for bacteria are apple meat (not the seeds) , or organic apple cider vinegar at a small rate in the water. I personally don't even like to do this daily unless I'm treating something or have a problem layer.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Hen Pecked honey]

Here is the update:

My H bought Enfamil Poly-vi-sol vitamins and I read the ingredients and there is no iron included and I gave her three drops and gave her more food which she ate followed by some water.

After your question about RADCO, I look it up on the internet. Radco has a website - Radcoegypt.com (Royal for Agriculture Development). There is nothing worthwhile on the website. Why are we purchasing poultry food from Egypt? I would prefer to buy US products.

Rado lists the following in their ingredients as, but please forgive the tag is very difficult to read and of course it was attached to the bag and to remove I damaged part of the label: ground Wheat, dehulled soy bean meat, some other items I cannot read), soluable ground corn, sun cured alfalfa meal Cacium cabonate, Yeast culture,dicalcium phosphate, salt, ???, stable culture of lactobacillus aoldophilus, L. casel, bifido bacterium thermophilium, enterocossius faecium, spergilius, dryzae, vitamin e supplement, marigold petal extract, garlic extract, anise extract, horseradish, juniper extract, chinese caesla bark extract, ginger extract, natural flavoring, salenium yeast, choline chloride, vit a supplement, vit d3 supplement, manadione sodium bisulfite, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, thiamine hydrochloride, pyridoxine, hydrochloride,, D-biotin, folic acid, vit b-12, manganese sulfate, zinc, sulfate, ferrous sulfate monohydrate, tribanic copper chloride, ethylene diamine dihydrolodide, sodium ?alenite.

Curdue protein, not leass than 20%
Crude at, not less than 3%
Crude fiber not more 6%
ash not more than 8%
calcum, not loess .7%
calcium, not more 1.1%
Phosphorus, not less than .5%
sodium, not more than .3%

The label states it was manufactured for John's pet products in san jose.



I can't think of anything different, she is always the first one to get out of the cage and visit with me. I placed them in their new coop on Monday and this happened on Saturday - Maybe the Stress of a new environment?


My existing flock which is only 9 months old came from Belt Hatchery in Fresno and was shipped to Half moon bay feed store so I don't know if they vaccinated. The three new ones were from a lady in the petaluma area. A friend picked them up for me so I am not sure of their upbringing. I will call her and ask.

I gave them oranges since I had given them to my original flock and they loved them. I did not know it was unsafe..

 

[Hen Pecked honey]

Only change is that the poop appears to have green, brown with a white swhirl in it....

She loves the food do I let her eat as much as she wants?

 

[threehorses]

The prepared food yes - she can eat as much as her little heart desires.

And I found the Egyptian company when googling it. I thought "Well THAT can't be it" haha!! Guess I was wrong.

That's the most unusual feed I've ever seen, really. There are some very good ingredients in it, and thankfully it IS fortified with actual vitamins and minerals. There are other things that could be worrying long term, but - not terribly so. Very interesting design. And it has a live culture of probiotics which replaces the amprolium I don't see on the label..

Because it's a bagged feed and who knows how it's been stored, I'd continue with probiotics daily throughout the 'starter' period. Probiotics in this case are replacing the amprolium as the design of the feed to help control cocci without killing all the cocci, allowing for an immune response to protect the chicks. That means you'll have to pay careful attention to environment to help prevent out breaks of cocci that will overcome the feed. That also means you should have a bottle of Corid around just in case.

She could have an underlying issue or inability to absorb nutrients perfect that, given the stress of the mood, could have come to the forefront. I'd keep boosting her nutrition and immunity through the vitamins. I think I'd also give her the extra vitamin E just in case. It won't hurt and certain can help. Then watch carefully for any sign of a new symptom.

Very interesting. Thank you so much for typing that label! You really went out of your way and I do appreciate it!

 

[Hen Pecked honey]

:Treehorses......

I really appreciate you taking the time to follow Wendie's situation. After hours of reviewing different posts I have seen your reply's to lots of concerns, I want to thank you for sharing your wisdom.

I will keep you updated on Wendie's health..