Washingtonians

[Cloverleaf Farm]

I won't repeat what my "mutt", the best dog in the history of the planet, had to say about your sentiments.

About this business of breeding true, what would happen if one were to breed a pair of "Favacaunas"? Just curious.


Quote: Hey, the best dogs I've ever owned are mutts, in fact, one of them is in my yard right now. I have nothing bad to say about mutt dogs, just have a hard time with people calling them something they are not.

If you breed two Fav / Ameraucana crosses together, you'll get all sorts of stuff...depending on what color Ams you started with, your feather colors would be all over the place. Egg color, you'll start getting some blue, some green, some brown egg layers, but mostly green. Combs would be unpredictable as well.

Oh, and some of the first generation offspring would have feathered legs, some might have 5 toes, so with this next generation, you'd have more of "a little of everything"...

 

[UrbanEnthusiast]

Oh, and for the record? Unless they're actually being used as working animals, I'm sickened by the concept of purebred dogs, period, including Puggles and Labradoodles. There are simply too many great dogs out there who need homes for us to be deliberately breeding more. With chickens it's a different story. I'm sure chicken farmers have been mixing and matching whatever they had on hand for centuries. This is hardly a new concept!

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Nope, not a new concept at all. In fact, my son is crossing Cochins and Favs right now for a color project, but he has specific breeding goals in mind, and will cull accordingly. And they will NOT be called Favs until they have ALL of the Fav type characteristics AND breed true. This is likely going to take him 10 - 15+ generations.


And that's just the thing...Puggles and Labradoodles are not purebred dogs. They will never breed true. As soon as you breed Puggle to Puggle, you get VERY weird looking / different dogs. Haven't seen Labradoodle x Labradoodle breedings first hand to state the same, but I'd bet my teeth it holds true for them as well.

 

[Dwkuska]

Oh, and for the record? Unless they're actually being used as working animals, I'm sickened by the concept of purebred dogs, period, including Puggles and Labradoodles. There are simply too many great dogs out there who need homes for us to be deliberately breeding more. With chickens it's a different story. I'm sure chicken farmers have been mixing and matching whatever they had on hand for centuries. This is hardly a new concept!

Take this coming from someone who breeds dogs/fish ect.... Purebreeding - inbreeding. Take horses for instance, every line of horse can be traced back to 1-2 sires. So really they are all mutts. Its just some mutts have been inbred enough to duplicate certain qualities. If you believe in the bible then same is true of all of us.. Adam + Eve = 7billion people today

 

[SadieSue]

And this is what I suspected. I'm sorry CF, because I was the first one to mention the Favaucanas. I was dazzled by the article and photos of pretty chickens. And right away I jumped to the idea that if someone were to "breed" the Favaucanas, that your Faverolles are by far the prettiest.

Which led to the next immediate thought and brought up my question about how someone would feel if they have worked hard to "better" a breed, not only for looks but for utility and for good health only to have someone use a fine specimen to breed a "mutt".

Here, I will also relate that some of my best dogs have been mutts - I loved them as much as my purebred dogs but my purebred dogs came from breeders who worked very very hard and spend a great deal of money to better the breed, have all necessary testing done, go to innumerable dog shows, spend thousands of hours training and many of their dogs ARE being used for the purposes for which they were originally bred (gundogs, retrieving) or are spending their time in agility, flyball, or as therapy dogs. These same folks are also involved in rescue and volunteering.

I currently own a mutt and a purebred dog that was carefully chosen by a reputable breeder, but also volunteer at my local shelter and spend weeks of time and my own money to foster for the shelter so that those animals will find their forever home. (I just picked up a couple of fosters again on Friday.)

So I apologize to everyone for opening up a can of worms because I know there are many who are passionate about all animals, 4 legged or 2 legged and I hope we can agree that we may have differing opinions but share one common element of wanting the best for them and recognizing each one for their very special qualities. I would hope that our passions are funneled into continuing doing for our animals rather than arguing with each other. Sometimes it's better to agree to disagree on smaller points and get back to our own business.

CF - I owe you a personal apology. But I stand by my original statement many pages ago. Your Faverolles have been and still are my favorites but it's because you have spent such a huge effort and countless generations working with them and all that work has paid off in producing a beautiful quality bird, certainly deserving of merit on it's own.

Now I'll go back to my own business of thinking before I type haphazardly.

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

OH geez, Dana, no need to apologize to me!!!!

I do believe that they would be mutts, and shouldn't be called a certain breed name, but most of my response was directed at the lynch-mob-like attitude that gets directed at certain people every time they post, regardless if their opinion is right or wrong.

Honestly, I haven't gone back and found the original discussion of the topic, just from what I've heard spoken to me in person about it, and the comments made today. I do think they would be REALLY cool Easter Eggers, but NOT "Favaucanas"...

THANK YOU so much for the lovely comments on my birds!!! You are awesome! We gotta get you some more Favs anyway! LOL

 

[FlyRobinFly]

So yesterday I did something stupid and it's resulted in me losing one of my sweet 4 month old Serama pullets.

Oh no! I hope she's safe somewhere and will come home.

 

[FlyRobinFly]

You shouldn't give folks ideas....putting duct tape so close to your mouth like that....

Hey Cloverleaf, they make camouflage duct tape too, since you like camo pattern!

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Quote: Hee hee hee...yes, I know...I have a roll of it! I coulda used it when CR was here today, but that would mean having to feed him and clean up after him, and I already have enough pets....

 

[lovinchickypoos]

Thanks!

I finally found this link, too... it has links for both the Avian Laboratory and the Plant and Insect Laboratory: http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/services.html

LOVINCHICKYPOOS: If you have hobos, be careful! My neighbor has a very bad scar from the huge ulcer that the hobo bite gave her. DH and I did a bunch of research tonight. We are *hoping* they are giant house spiders (a relative of the hobo) and not the hobo. Here's a PDF that can help you identify them: http://pep.wsu.edu/pdf/PLS116_1.pdf

I'm still going to pay the $25.00 and have the one we killed checked out. We have way too many of them. If they are giant house spiders, I won't bother to spray - I guess the giant house spider will kill hobos. I hope to verify the appropriate action to take when I talk to the people at the lab in Puyallup. When my neighbor took her two spiders in, they were confirmed hobos. She said it took about 2 days to get the results back.

GREAT LINK!! NOT SURE I'M GONNA GET A MICROSCOPE, BUT MAYBE I'LL GET BRAVE ENOUGH TO USE A MAGNIFYING GLASS JUST TO RULE OUT HOBOS!

I have LF Faverolles from Cloverleaf and will be hatching out wheaten and blue wheaten Ameraucanas this fall. Favaucanas next year (near Portland, OR)!

Aha! A Favaucana source! I'm wondering how Jeanine feels about this trend. Is it similar to breeding a nice purebred dog to another breed to make over-priced "designer dogs" with no real standard? Or is it different because it's chickens?

I'M JEALOUS ABOUT YOUR FAVEROLLES!!!! UM, THE MIXED BREED SUBJECT IS REALLY TOUCHY FOR ME. I AM VERY AGGRAVATED BY THE DESIGNER DOG FAD. I FEEL A BETTER SOURCE FOR MUTTS IS THE MANY SHELTERS OUT THERE. FADS FADE (I JUST WISH THIS ONE WOULD HURRY UP!) AND WHEN THE NOVELTY WEARS OFF IT PUTS OUTRAGEOUS NUMBERS IN THE SHELTERS. LIKE CLOVERLEAF HAS SAID THIS HURTS RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS (YES THEY ARE OUT THERE. YOU JUST HAVE TO BE PATIENT AND TENACIOUS TO FIND THEM). WHEN PEOPLE ARE BREEDING FOR PROFIT IT HURTS THE BREEDS. $500-$800 FOR A MIXED BREED WITH A "CUTE" NAMED DOG WITH UNPREDICTABLE CHARACTERISTICS??? I LOOOOOVE MY MUTTS AND HAVE TATTOOS IN MEMORY OF THEM, BUT I ALSO BELIEVE IN SUPPORTING THOSE WHO BREED FOR TRUE CHARACTERISTICS AND TEMPERMENT AND NOT FOR MONEY. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO BACK UP AND GUARANTEE THEIR PUPPIES. MY COCKER MADE ME A BELIEVER IN THIS AS, DUE TO DECADES OF OVERBREEDING, THEY ARE KNOWN TO BE FEARFUL BITERS. I LOCATED A RESPONSIBLE BREEDER IN OLYMPIA (5 HRS AWAY FROM ME) AND WE HAVE A HAPPY-GO-LUCKY GIRL TRUE TO BREED STANDARD!
I GUESS WITH CHICKENS, FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON, I DON'T SEEM AS BOTHERED ONLY IF THEY ARE SOLD AS MIXED BREEDS FOR FUN AND NOT FOR SOMETHING "SPECIAL" FOR OUTRAGEOUS PRICES AND IF THE PARENTS HAVE DESIRABLE CHARACTERISTICS AND PERFORM WELL FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSES.

He sounds like a rubber squeaky toy.

Is he just young, or do all bantams sound like like that?
I'm still working on getting my son to pet chickens. He'll happily chase LF hens around a friend's yard, but he won't touch a silkie. I figure starting with chicks and building familiarity will help. He pets our greyhound and pulls her tail, but he is very leery of any strange dog.

Jennifer

THE TWO BOYS I HAD (STILL HAVE 1) CRACK ME UP AND I DESCRIBE THE CROW THE SAME WAY AS YOU!

Most definatley I just went out and bought 350lbs of feed. WIth the droughts and the gas price hike here on the west coast... I am buying now before feed gets to ,50/pound.
unless you have only a few chickens buy in bulk now. Feed prices are going to continue to go up. Thank you uncle sam for making ethanol fuel a requirement. Now its more profitable to sell corn for fuel then it is for food and feed >.<

LORDY, I FEEL THE SAME WAY! MOST CARS ARE NOT MADE TO HANDLE THAT CRAP! I GUESS IT KEEPS CAR MECHANICS AND DEALERSHIPS IN BUSINESS!!!

Correct.

Besides that I have had two mechanics tell me that is terrible for small engines.
That is why lawn mowers, generators, need carb rebuild so fast.
He told me most of his business is rebuilding carbs after they did the ethanol addition.

WELL GOOD GRIEF! THIS CONFIRMS WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM OTHERS!

I think the issue here is with the name "Favaucana"...it's still a mutt. Just like a "Labradoodle" or a "Puggle" are mutts. They don't breed true, and frankly, as someone who works in the animal industry, I'm disgusted that the AKC recognizes Labradoodles. They are Lab / Poodle mixes. Period.
A Faverolles x Ameraucana mix is an Easter Egger by definition. Everyone has their own opinion, clearly. But instead of making "designer chickens", how about conserving a breed that desperately needs the conservation instead of making more mutts?? JMO...

...And if you want to talk about utility...the Favs were originally bred as a table bird...a lot of people have gotten away from that in the pursuit of the perfect "show bird"...there's very few of us Fav breeders left that breed them for utility AND showing...

WHILE I WAS WORKING IN THE VET CLINIC I SAW A LOT OF THE "DESIGNER DOGS". IT WOULD AEGGRAVATE ME TO NO END WHEN I WOULD TAKE INFO AND THE PEOPLE WOULD REPLY WITH A SILLY NAME WHEN ASKED WHAT BREED IT IS. I WOULD JUST TELL THEM WE DO NOT HAVE THAT IN OUR SYSTEM AND WOULD PUT "MIXED" AS THE BREED. EVEN "COCKAPOOS" I SEE ARE VERY INCONSISTENT AND THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR AWHILE. I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT I CAN'T THINK OF ANY "LABRADOODLES" OR "GOLDENDOODLES" THAT DIDN'T ACT LIKE SPAZZES AND WERE WEIRD IN SOME WAY! I DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND ANY OWNERS OF SUCH PETS OUT THERE, B.T.W., I JUST PREFER TO EITHER GO TO A RESCUE GROUP OR GOOD BREEDER WITH LONG LINES OF PROVEN DOGS TRUE TO TYPE IF I'M GONNA SPEND MUCH MONEY ON A PET.
THAT BEING SAID, THE PICS OF THE FAVEROLLES MIXES WERE BEAUTIFUL BIRDS. THEY JUST NEED TO BE SOLD AS MIXES, WHICH I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST AS LONG AS THEY SERVE THEIR PURPOSE.