We are dealing with Mareks

[Canuck88]

Hey guys,

I’m sure this is a much longer story but the short version is I took 3 of my birds in for testing to the lab on Monday and yesterday I received the final report.

2 birds positive for Mareks
1 bird positive for Coccidia
PCR positive for Avibacterium Paragallinarum (I’m assuming for all 3 as it doesn’t specify..)

I am still waiting for a call from my vet who was also sent the results. I am sure the pathologist will also call me today as last spring I dealt with MG (I know right, lucky me), and he called to speak with me then.

I will update once I have a plan of action. The birds in my current flock are of course unvaccinated. They were obtained from local breeders. I am of course attached to them.

I have 5, 3 week old chicks in the brooder in my tack room, and 7 eggs going into lockdown today. Does anyone know if I obtained the vaccine for the day olds if it would be worth vaccinating the 3 week olds as well? Or is it too late?

 

[Eggcessive]

Oh no, avibacterium paragallinarium is coryza, a chronic respiratory disease a little worse that MG. More than likely the young ones have already been exposed to the Mareks virus from your clothes, hair, shoes, etc. since Mareks is transmitted in the dander and dust from the chickens. I probably would not bother with vaccinating, although I usually get my chicks vaccinated for Mareks at the hatchery.

Mareks disease causes chickens to have a lack of immunity (low white blood cell count) to fight off common diseases that a healthy chicken might resist. It sounds like you have quite a bit going on, so I would close my flock, and treat sick birds or cull the sickest ones. I would treat all birds for coccidiosis with Corid (or amprollium in Canada.) It would be good to treat the chicks when they are a few weeks old, and give everyone probiotics a couple of days a week to help keep the gut bacteria healthy. Change water daily into a cleaned waterer.

So sorry that you are dealing with multiple issues. Some day when all chickens are gone, you could get Mareks vaccinated chicks froma hatchery, and take a chance on them not getting sick. It is always a gamble buying chickens from other people.

 

[Canuck88]

@Canuck88 It seems we've had some similar heartache

I had to put down my entire flock last year. I didn't confirm Marek's because the first to get sick we put down and our vet at that time didn't treat chickens. Since I put the body in the freezer we couldn't send for testing. Based on what I've read andobserved, I'm pretty sure though.

At that time I had a dozen chicks that had been exposed to the older birds. I lost 2 to illness from those, one had a tumor on the neck and another began having mobility issues. Both were put down immediately. The rest are fine. I added another dozen chicks to my flock, 12 weeks now, and they are all fine as well. All of these additions were hatched here and were outside in their own coop by 3 days of age and had direct exposure to the other birds at 4 weeks. I don't vaccinate.

I can tell you that we've processed some of our chickens for meat and those we've done all had healthy looking tissues, no tumors or other issues. So I believe you'll have survivors but you may have more losses as well. That doesn't mean you can't add to your flock, you just need to be especially observant, which it seems you are. I would only cull the sick birds, treat everyone for coccidia and see what happens. Those with strong immune systems can pass that on to their offspring and you could still build a strong, healthy flock.

Marek's can be shed in the chickens danded so I make sure to keep the dust down in my coop by vacuuming it once a month and turning the litter every week. Then scrub the interior and sanitize the coop once a year unless illness happens.

One major change I made is that I limit scratch (no corn in it) to 1 Tablespoon per bird each day and I've started giving my flock Rooster Booster Poultry Cell on occasion. So far it's working out better than I expected.

I hope it didn't seem like I was on a soap box about not selling your birds, that wasn't my intent. Some people just don't know, I had no idea until I did hours of reading and research.

I hope that helps in some way.

No it is very helpful to hear your advice! Thank you

I understand about the issue of selling/giving away because so many people probably just shrug it off or don’t care about spreading disease.

When I spoke to the pathologist last time I remember him begging me not to “Dump my flock at the auction” and I was sad to think people obviously do that and then unsuspecting people end up with the same problems in their flocks.

I’m happy to hear that you have successfully added chicks into your flock. I know I will continue to have losses but it gives me hope that some of my birds will be able to live out their lives on the farm.

 

[igorsMistress]

@Canuck88 It seems we've had some similar heartache

I had to put down my entire flock last year. I didn't confirm Marek's because the first to get sick we put down and our vet at that time didn't treat chickens. Since I put the body in the freezer we couldn't send for testing. Based on what I've read andobserved, I'm pretty sure though.

At that time I had a dozen chicks that had been exposed to the older birds. I lost 2 to illness from those, one had a tumor on the neck and another began having mobility issues. Both were put down immediately. The rest are fine. I added another dozen chicks to my flock, 12 weeks now, and they are all fine as well. All of these additions were hatched here and were outside in their own coop by 3 days of age and had direct exposure to the other birds at 4 weeks. I don't vaccinate.

I can tell you that we've processed some of our chickens for meat and those we've done all had healthy looking tissues, no tumors or other issues. So I believe you'll have survivors but you may have more losses as well. That doesn't mean you can't add to your flock, you just need to be especially observant, which it seems you are. I would only cull the sick birds, treat everyone for coccidia, sanitize the coop and see what happens. Those with strong immune systems can pass that on to their offspring and you could still build a strong, healthy flock.

Marek's can be shed in the chickens danded so I make sure to keep the dust down in my coop by vacuuming it once a month and turning the litter every week. Then scrub the interior and sanitize the coop once a year unless illness happens.

One major change I made is that I limit scratch (no corn in it) to 1 Tablespoon per bird each day and I've started giving my flock Rooster Booster Poultry Cell on occasion. So far it's working out better than I expected.

I hope it didn't seem like I was on a soap box about not selling your birds, that wasn't my intent. Some people just don't know, I had no idea until I did hours of reading and research.

I hope that helps in some way.

 

[CatWhisperer]

Seriously?! That is horrible that people would do that!

People are a horrible species.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

@igorsMistress I agree about closing the flock. That’s honestly why I took some birds to the lab because I was hoping to breed and sell chicks and obviously I can’t do that now. But I wouldn’t be able to live with myself knowing that I could be spreading disease and putting others in this terrible situation.

Last spring I culled my whole flock on the recommendation of the pathologist due to the MG (and the fact that I was hoping to breed/sell). So I do have Virkon tablets left over from that.

We have only been at this farm for a little over a year, built the coops new and got our first chicks last February.. before this I have only had a small number of chickens in a backyard setting.

I have certainly learned some important lessons going forward (whether I cull all these birds or close my flock and deal with the illness).

Another question: if I sterilize everything and cull the remains sick birds (only one other bird at the moment is showing symptoms), will all of my other birds slowly die one by one? Or will some of them live out happy lives? I don’t want to cull all of my birds but feel it would be cruel to keep them alive only to let them suffer..

There are a few facts to consider. Marek's has no cure so that is something to deal with. Marek's is present everywhere in the world. Birds are either resistant/immune or they are not.
I take coccidia reports from veterinarians with a grain of salt because any animal living on soil will usually have detectable coccidia in their feces.
We all learn lessons, usually the hard way. If you have birds showing no symptoms, I would consider them resistant and the basis of future flocks.

People are a horrible species.

The wife of a friend has a saying, "people are scum".

Little update:

I spoke with the Pathologist and the Vet, both said basically the same thing. Close my flock, up my biosecurity. Which I planned on doing anyways of course.

This morning I picked up some antibiotic from the vet to treat the avibacterium and some Amprolium to treat the Coccidia afterwards.

So far my other chickens seem fine. I’m of course worried about my chicks in the brooder and the ones due to hatch on Sunday. I wasn’t able to get the Mareks vaccine for the ones that haven’t hatched yet from the vet.. I was hoping I could get it so that they’d have a better chance.

Tomorrow I’m going to gut and sterilize my coop when my mom can watch my littles (Hubby works away so unfortunately can’t do it sooner).

Are your chicks in the brooder from off your property or from your birds?
If you have the vaccine, it won't hurt to vaccinate the day olds and the 3 week chicks. It will work or it won't. Marek's vaccine is in a race with the virus in the environment. So the sooner they are vaccinated, the better the effect.

 

[igorsMistress]

I'm sorry, it's a horrible thing to deal with.

Vaccination only masks the symptoms, it doesn't prevent the disease. As long as any birds with the disease are alive they are shedding the virus and can make the rest of your flock sick. Here's a link you might find useful https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/
Good luck to you and your flock!

 

[Canuck88]

@igorsMistress I agree about closing the flock. That’s honestly why I took some birds to the lab because I was hoping to breed and sell chicks and obviously I can’t do that now. But I wouldn’t be able to live with myself knowing that I could be spreading disease and putting others in this terrible situation.

Last spring I culled my whole flock on the recommendation of the pathologist due to the MG (and the fact that I was hoping to breed/sell). So I do have Virkon tablets left over from that.

We have only been at this farm for a little over a year, built the coops new and got our first chicks last February.. before this I have only had a small number of chickens in a backyard setting.

I have certainly learned some important lessons going forward (whether I cull all these birds or close my flock and deal with the illness).

Another question: if I sterilize everything and cull the remains sick birds (only one other bird at the moment is showing symptoms), will all of my other birds slowly die one by one? Or will some of them live out happy lives? I don’t want to cull all of my birds but feel it would be cruel to keep them alive only to let them suffer..

 

[Canuck88]

Little update:

I spoke with the Pathologist and the Vet, both said basically the same thing. Close my flock, up my biosecurity. Which I planned on doing anyways of course.

This morning I picked up some antibiotic from the vet to treat the avibacterium and some Amprolium to treat the Coccidia afterwards.

So far my other chickens seem fine. I’m of course worried about my chicks in the brooder and the ones due to hatch on Sunday. I wasn’t able to get the Mareks vaccine for the ones that haven’t hatched yet from the vet.. I was hoping I could get it so that they’d have a better chance.

Tomorrow I’m going to gut and sterilize my coop when my mom can watch my littles (Hubby works away so unfortunately can’t do it sooner).

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Little update:

I spoke with the Pathologist and the Vet, both said basically the same thing. Close my flock, up my biosecurity. Which I planned on doing anyways of course.

This morning I picked up some antibiotic from the vet to treat the avibacterium and some Amprolium to treat the Coccidia afterwards.

So far my other chickens seem fine. I’m of course worried about my chicks in the brooder and the ones due to hatch on Sunday. I wasn’t able to get the Mareks vaccine for the ones that haven’t hatched yet from the vet.. I was hoping I could get it so that they’d have a better chance.

Tomorrow I’m going to gut and sterilize my coop when my mom can watch my littles (Hubby works away so unfortunately can’t do it sooner).

I’m so sorry to hear that you’ve had so many health issues in your chickens! We found out last year that we bought chicks with Marek’s and brought it into our flock. We had some that were vaccinated and some unvaccinated. We’ve slowly lost many, but not all, of the unvaccinated birds. We started with the vaccine that you can order shipped to your door, the cell-free vaccine from online stores like ValleyVet and Stromberg. When we found out we had Marek’s, we did decide to vaccinate all chickens in the spirit of “cant hurt, might help”. Since then, we’ve purchased chicks vaccinated with the Rispens strain, and they’ve done well so far (6 mo old). We’ve also vaccinated our own home bred eggs and they’ve also done well (6-8 months old). We don’t do any special coop cleaning, but do try to minimize stress. Best of luck with your flock - sounds like you deserve a break!