weasel- half of flock dead- others not doing well...

[JonesinTempleton]

I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Last night a weasel (we're assuming) got into our coop. We had 12 hens and 4 ducks. 1 duck and 5 hens were killed. (The aggressor was unable to leave with the carcasses.) I now have 2 ducks with leg injuries that I think might heal with time, but their bills are torn at the edges and some of their eyes look swollen.

I also have 5 hens who have various beak injuries- one of whom's beak is completely splintered out in jagged slices. I offered her water from a drizzling hose and she drank heavily. Can they recouperate from these types of injuries? Also one hen is fine, body wise- but she isn't opening either of her eyes. I held watered down layer pellets to her and she ate some... But didn't open her eyes.

I am just devastated. I have them all in my garage tonight- with fresh shavings and the ones who are injured are seperated out so they won't be pecked... And I have lots of food and water bowls out so they can reach them with minimal movement...

What can I do? Should I have them euthanized? I am just heartsick. They were raised in my kindergarten classroom 4 years ago and were my pets- each with a name and a personality.

I am planning on getting a secure coop on a trailer set up... I'm going to look online next. I thought our home made one was good- had no troubles for 4 years till now. Ergh!

Thanks in advance for your help and support!

 

[Granolamom]

Oh my, I'm so sorry that happened to your girls!
I got my original flock from my son's Kindergarden class, as well, and we love them dearly.
I don't have enough experience to advise you on these injuries, and so I'll just bump you up. I know that one thing I'd do immediately is to give them "Rescue Remedy" in their water (most healthfood stores carry it), which helps after any traumatic experience. Hopefully someone else can help more.

 

[PunkinPeep]

I don't know about the beaks. I think you have to evaluate each bird individually.

I'm so sorry about your situation. I definitely relate.

As far as the ones with leg injuries - or anyone who is missing skin or flesh....i just wanted to encourage you to do thorough cleanings of the wounds and apply non-pain killer triple antibiotic ointment and consider whether they might need injectable antibiotics.

i couldn't tell from your post how bad the injuries are.

with flesh wounds, it's also important to get the feathers off of the wound by clipping with scissors, or in some cases, pulling.

i would think that it would depend on the extent of the beak injuries; they may recover just fine.

can you take some pictures of the ones you're concerned about?

rooting for you,
beth

 

[monathequeen]

Hello,
Im so sorry about your birds. How did the weasle get in first of all...

Second, Go to: " Duck Rescue Network .com"
There you will find a great Duck Care Forum. It sounds like the ducks will be ok depending on the injury however, you will need to put their food in water so it floats and they will eat. It may be hard for them to eat out of a feeder because of the injured part of the bill so it would be easier for them to kind of slurp the food as apposed to pecking out of the feeder.
Have plenty of fresh water avail. and close by.
Change the water often so they dont get an infection from the dirty water.
I would get them to a Vet ASAP if you can afford it..they may need to be on antibiotics-BAYTRIL. It worked wonders for my Duck's Bumblefoot.

About the chicks, they seem to heal fast and I would seperate all the injured birds until they heal. Clean and apply neosporin to the wounds and wrap them in elastic -wrap tape. (Not too tight)

I wish you well.........God Bless

 

[threehorses]

I'm going to finish this post with an 'article' I wrote about treating wounds. I've had to type it so many times (and would always forget something in trying to remember it) that I just typed it out. It should be helpful to you.

I've had to doctor anything from chickens who were attacked by dogs, to ducks with broken legs, geese with broken legs, and geese who were mauled. Waterfowl injuries are a bit more difficult as you must keep them dry (and they hate that). It's a bit of a challenge giving them enough water to wash their sinuses out daily as required, but disallow them from bathing in it. I use a tall, narrow bucket for the waterfowl for this but a standard sized duck CAN drown in a 5 gallon bucket so you have to be cautious.

As for the bird with the splintered bill, is it just the flesh on the outside? That will be the trickiest one. A good vet (avian certified preferred) can fashion a prosthesis or covering to help the bill heal.

As for antibiotics, you can also use Penicillin G Procaine. Penicillins and baytril are both applicable to wound injuries. Penicillin is given via injection and has a broad safety margin. Baytril, only if prescribed by the vet please, is a very good antibiotic but very strong. In any case, you will NOT want to stop the antibiotics even one day short of the full prescribed time of giving them. Period.

Also with all antibiotics, even injectables, please always give a PRObiotic at the same time. Your probiotic can be as simple as plain yogurt (unless you're using a mycin or cycline antibiotic in cases of respiratory illness), acidophilus tablets/capsules from the grocery/pharmacy's vitamin section, or a prepared livestock probiotic. Probios is the most common of the latter. Give every day of treatment at the opposite time of day from when you give the fresh antibiotic. Then give every other day for two weeks after your last day of antibiotics. (This is also recommended for humans, too, incidentally - but birds are heavily dependent on the good bacteria within the gut - and they will often develop a secondary bacterial infection in their gut if you don't give them probiotics during treatment, stress, or worming.)

In the mean time, here's the article. I hope it helps. Feel free to email me for questions/support.

Here's my usual way of doing wounds. It's worked for some pretty extreme wounds, including one 2x1 wound that went all the way down to the silver covering of the spine of one bird.

First, gather materials:
VetWrap or similar self-adhesive wrap.
gauze wrapping type bandages or squares (depending on what you have to bandage)
non-stick pads (depending on what you have to wrap)
antibiotic ointment (neosporin, Swat for horses if you have flies around)
hydrogen peroxide (h202)
iodine
warm water
a needleless syringe - preferably a big one like 30 cc's
suture material if you need it (this ideally should be left to a vet)
a small pair of scissors like cuticle scissors are helpful
large scissors
(duct tape in some cases)
a good safe blood clotter. I prefer Clotisol as it's not poisonous and clots IMMEDIATELY even in high blood situations. You can even use it inside of beaks. It's water based, lasts ages for a small bottle. Seriously - ages. You can pretty much only get it online, but it's a must-have for a cabinet. Once you use it, you won't go back.
q-tips
papertowels
clean clothes that can be stained

DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO TREAT BY YOURSELF:
First, an important note. It would be ideal if, as poultry owners faced with an injured bird, that the bird be taken to a qualified veterinarian who can not only dress the wounds, access the damage, but also prescribe the correct antibiotics and follow up as necessary. This, first and foremost, is what I recommend for any wound situation that is more than minor. Please take that to heart.

If instead you decide to treat the wound yourself, here are some basic instructions on how to do so. Note that every wound, every case, is different. Use your common sense and imagination on determining when this protocol must be flexed to fit your situation.

PREPARATION:
First, examine the bird and find all wounds. Use your big and little scissors to trim feathers away from the area. Try to only take as many as could touch the wound, no more - they need feather protection and the feathers won't grow back til next moult. Also be careful, if wing feathers are near, not to cut the living flesh part inside feather quills.

If the wounds are under the wing, sometimes you can simply wrap the wing in a t-shirt to keep whatever touches the wing clean. Baby tshirts would be great for this. Neck part at the top of the wing, fitted with a little duct tape on the cloth (not tight please) and just tie the other end of the tshirt.

Make sure to look very carefully against the skin for puncture wounds. There might not be look, and puncture wounds are tricky and hard to find. Note the location and severity of all wounds.

Cleansing:
Take your syringe and fill with H202 (straight) or h202 slightly diluted with water. Use the syringe to vigously clean the wound area including in the wounds. If the wounds are puncture wounds, use diluted water/h202, not straight. You only use h202 the first time as it tends to burn tissues and keep them from healing if you continue. But it's great for bubbling out bits of dirt from inside the wound. Do this cleansing about three times per wound.

Follow up by rinsing out the h2o2 with a water/iodine mixture made to be just the color of slightly strong iced tea. You want it warm. Fill your same syringe that you used with the h2o2 and flush the wounds rather vigorously.

At this time, if there are any pieces of flesh that need to be removed, remove them. This is where I use a q-tip dipped in a bottle-cap full of clotisol (so you don't contaminate the original bottle).

Doing this on a table that's ok to stain is best. I've done this on my truck's tail gate as I can clean it afterwards. Place a lot of papertowels under the birds for these two cleansing phases to keep the drainoff from going everywhere.

Use another clean papertowel to dry the wound. You want to leave some iodine solution inside the wound - it doesn't have to be skin-dry. Just dry enough for some ointment to stick.

DRESSING:
Once the wound is well cleaned, then you'll want to dress it. I use Neosporin and q-tips most often for this job. If there are flies in the area at all, I will use Neosporin inside the wounds (ointment) and use Swat wound ointment for horses instead. (It has fly repellent that's safe for poultry in it.) I fill punctures with neosporin. If they're deep, I stick the top of the tube into the wound (and throw away the tube after I'm done with everything). Pack it. You usually want air in a wound, but puncture wounds can sometimes heal on top first and leave a pocket inside. The antibiotic ointment (not creme) is a little insurance against too much bacteria and thus abcesses.

If the wound is one that absolutely must be stitched, then pack it with the antibiotic ointment. If you're using a flyproof ointment, wipe the wound and then use the fly-proof on top. Otherwise just wipe slightly so there's a little antibiotic ointment on the important top part of the wound. You don't want to stray too far from just the wound, keep the bird dry.

On closing wounds with sutures. Puncture wounds shouldn't be sutured. Bad bacteria love a place where there's no oxygen. Suturing closes the wound and encourages festering within. As much air as you can get to a wound, the better, except that the interior of punctures should have some antibacterial action going on.

I've had some serious wounds in my flock before. The only time I've sutured was when a very large flap of skin was torn from the front of a neck (read as 3 inches by 10 inch flap). Another recent case involves a possible rather large hole in a crop which, should it leak food, should be sutured. Otherwise try to leave things open. Poultry can regrow an amazing amount of skin back if there's muscle underneath. New skin will granulate and grow in to fill in gaps that would surprise you.

On the areas that are just uncovered, I usually use antibiotic creme (versus ointment) because it's water based. Sometimes I'll just put a thin smear of antibiotic ointment, however, if that's what I have. Or fly-preventative ointment if there are flies in the area.

DRESSING WITH BANDAGES:
If at all possible, try not to cover with bandages. The average bandage keeps air out and moisture in and not in a good way. If you must bandage (a dirt floor area, extreme fly issues, etc) then try to keep the bandage to a minimum and very airy. That's why I'm not a big fan of nonstick bandages. They tend to trap moisture and cause a very warm airless area. But sometimes you have to use them. If so, cover the wound with the bandage. Wrap twice with very gauzey gauze wrap. Then put one layer only of VetWrap over. If you must secure (to keep the bandage from falling, for example) you can use very thin strips of duct tape like you would tape a birthday present. Using as little as possible, but a very strong tape like duct tape, helps let the air in.

Sometimes I've even used just one layer of a very clean paper towel rather than use a non-stick. Afterwards, if you have to remove it, you can soak with warm water and pick the bits out if it sticks. Gauze tends to embed in wound seepage.

Think out of the box when it comes to covering areas that are wounded. With my geese who had multiple puncture and surface wounds on their chest, and a high fly area, I used one white sheet that I formed into a sort of front-bib and tied behind their back. T-shirts are also awesome to cover a bird's body. Buy the appropriate size, slip the neck over their neck, their legs through the arm holes, cut two holes through which you slip their wings. Gather the bottom end (cut so that you don't cover their vent) at the top of their back and duct-tape the cloth to make it stay fitted. T-shirts are very airy, cheap, washable, and absorbent.

SUTURES:
If your bird requires stitches, suture material with thread attached can be found at many feedstores or purchased online ahead of time. The size you want is for dogs and cats. Sutures aren't stitched like a pillow case, but each stitch is its own knot. The semi-circular needles of suture needles are ideal for going into and out of the skin. Note: stitching is not easy - skin is tough, usually the needle is slippery, and it's rather tough to do. Overestimate the amount of suture material you need as you'll make knots and cut off the excess bit sticking up.

MAINTENANCE:
Many wounds, if properly cleaned and dressed and left airy, do not need much maintenance. Oddly, one of the best ways of telling whether or not a wound is doing well is by using your nose. Smell the wound at the time of cleaning. Wounds have a particular almost sweet but not cloyingly sweet smell. Remember the smell. Then smell the wound daily to see if you smell rot. If you do, there's not enough air to the wound and possible infection going on.

Wounds will seep a little - that's natural and the body's way of dealing with wounds. Usually the seepage will be mostly clear and smell of wound. However, if there's any opaqueness to it, or clotted texture, that's infection. Also there will be some natural inflammation as the body tries to bully off the bad bacteria and bring in healing materials to the wound. However excessive inflammation, discoloration (especially black or green), should be noted.

If a wound needs cleaning or examining, take off what bandages you can gently. If they stick to the seepage from the wound, use warm water to soak the bandage parts remaining away from the drainage.

Then examine the wound, determine what needs to be done, and redress from the iodine stage onward.

ANTIBIOTICS:
Many wounds do not require additional antibiotics other than topical (on the skin) antibiotic dressings. However in the case of animal bites that weren't caught immediately, cat bites, and wounds that have been sitting or are particularly deep, it may be a good idea to treat with antibiotics. If you make this decision, please be sure to get one that is appropriate for wounds. The packages at the feedstore are not.

Penicillin G Procaine (Aqueous Pen-G) is commonly found at many feedstores in their fridge section. It's awesome to keep in your own fridge for a rainy day. It's a very thick antibiotic and requires a thicker gauge needle. I would use no thinner than a 22 gauge, preferably something more thick at a length of .75 to 1 inch. At many feedstores, you can buy 3 cc syringes that are together already with needles. These are nice to have on hand as well as that 30 cc syringe that you'll use to flush wounds.
(Pen G is safe for waterfowl.)

Instructions on how to give an injection are available separately as well as how to treat with antibiotics. If you do choose to use injectable antibiotics, be prepared to go the entire recommended course. Penicillin G Procaine is a concentrated penicillin (they're not all created equally) and only is required to be given every other day. Based on the type of antibiotic you expect to use, buy that many syringes plus two.

HEALING:
Birds in healing mode need help being stabilized, nourished, and hydrated. We all know how delicate birds can be, but it's surprising how resilient they can be at times. However, wounds will often depress a bird or cause them to go into shock. A stressed or shocked bird may not be able to digest foods they're commonly given. For that reason, I recommend only giving easily dissolved feeds when a bird is in the first stages of recovery. Think crumbles, pellets, etc. You don't want to make a drastic change in their diet ever, much less when they're already stressed. If a bird is reluctant to eat, try wetting the pellets/crumbles. You can also add a boiled egg yolk (one per six cups of food) mashed into the crumbles. I like to also give probiotics (yogurt, Fastrack, Probiocs, acidophilus, or whatever I have available) during this time to combat a secondary intestinal disorder from stress and change of way of eating. Yogurt is simple. You can mix 1 tablespoon per two cups of feed.

The added protein in an egg yolk helps the bird to heal. Adding a capsule of vitamin E to that mash (one per 2 cups of mash) also helps healing. If the birds are stressy, or not able to eat normally, I'll use a vitamin/electrolyte mix in their water for the first few days. I never ever use an oral antibiotic for wound treatment. Period.

CONCLUSION:
It's unfortunately common that poultry are victims of predation and wounds. They are delicate and, with their ultra-fast metabolisms, can die readily if they decide to. Remember that an injured bird can often have internal injuries we never see. If you lose them, just remember you tried your best. However you might be surprised, with proper wound-care, how many of these birds recover to absolutely normal lives. Just be patient as healing takes a while. Usually separate the birds, but if they can be near their peers they take heart from it and will do better.

Good luck with your flock, and I hope this information has been helpful.
Nathalie Ross
(Please do not reproduce without permission of the author. The author is not a veterinarian and does not intend to dispense information that at all should replace the advice of a qualified avian vet.)

 

[JonesinTempleton]

Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement! No one seems to know how their beaks will fare so far... I'm really hoping that they will heal- as I couldn't stand to loose any more... But if they can't eat- it isn't fair to let them suffer.

What a horrid situation. I thank God that my daughter is too young to remember this. Because I don't know how to deal with what I've seen- and I'm grown!

Oh how I hate the food chain.

 

[threehorses]

The whole predator thing is devestating. I'm so sorry you've experienced it. Honestly, when you go through a big maul like that, it scars you.

Earlier this year two dogs got into our property (the whole 4 acres of which has a 6 foot tall chain link fence around - they went through a small gap where you could push the gate in) and mauled 10 of my 17 geese. They killed some, half killed most, and left me only 8 horribly injured geese. It's dreadful to have to put your own babies down - it's not fair at all for an animal lover.

So I bet I know how you felt when you saw what you saw. There's little quite like it. I'm also glad your daughter wasn't there. It's better that she sees you in the care-taking and working hard to try to help little lives. That's the lesson she needs from this, really. I really thought I was going to completely lose my mind when I found mine. And then having to treat so many in such a short time. My heart is with you.

Feel free to email me if you want to whine, cry, scream, or just need support. But you might be surprised how resilient the birds can be. The trick seems to be trying to keep them wanting to live. If they decide they don't want to, there's little you can do. You might also lose some to internal injuries. If you do, know you are doing what you can. Many people would just euthanize rather than trying to give them a chance. I'm not the type of person who can do that, and apparently you aren't either.

Another tricky thing is going to be sinuses. Injuries around sinuses are very difficult. If you can't do this, don't blame yourself. I would highly recommend some sort of injectible antibiotic. If you can get your vet to give you Baytril, because of the sinus involvement, I'd do it.

Also, do you think it's a weasel because of the space they got in through? Or do you know where the space is? Raccoons can do the same sort of damage and will simply leave carcasses around. But of course, that would mean a larger space through which he came.

When you rebuild. consider both. Don't just use poultry wire (the hex kind) because raccoons can rip right through that. Apparently they can also rip 2x4 opening welded wire off of poles unless you really thoroughly attach it. So a combination of a welded wire and a weasle-proof one is a good call.

Again I'm so sorry. I hate the food chain, and even when it's not a food chain but just plain mean predation.

Please be sure to remember this was a stress to you, too, and find stress-relieving activities to treat yourself as you recover from the shock of this as well.