Weird question about feed

[skeer]

Ok so correct me if I'm wrong here.. but from what I've read most hens will be spent after about 2-2.5 years of laying. Most, if not all, of us here consider our chickens as pets with benefits right? I know we're not planning on culling any of our hens when the time comes that they no longer lay... but does anyone know if that could be lengthened by not feeding them laying pellets/crumbles?

I'm thinking.. instead of feeding ours a 50/50 mixture of scratch grains and laying pellets, what if I change it to a mix of grower/finisher and scratch grains? They obviously won;t lay as often, but that could be offset by a high number of birds. Then by them not being 'forced' to lay 4-5 times a week would they lay longer than 2 years?

 

[skeer]

I probably didn't post this in the correct area... Mods please move if I did.

 

[skeer]

Wow so I had thought BYC was a haven for info... is this such a difficult question?

 

[ocap]

sometimes when I start a new thread the answer is long in arriving because it gets lost in the system. Please post your question on another thread like this one:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/400344/heritage-large-fowl-thread

Welcome to BYC
The people that participate in the above thread write a lot about slower to mature breeds live longer and lay longer. Seems to be more type and not food that is the key to long production.

 

[RoostersCrow HensDeliver!]

You will be just fine feeding them grower or flock raiser (20%protein) but the hens need calcium to lay so you need to have a supplemental source for that. If they don't free range and you're giving them scratch, then they need grit also.

I would only give the scratch as a daily treat instead of 1/2 of their ration because its really low in protein. If you really want to feed 1/2 scratch, get a game bird feed with 28% protein so your birds are still getting the nutrition they need.

 

[ChickensRDinos]

Lay feed does not "force" birds to lay. Lay feed is just regular chicken feed with extra calcium. You can get the exact same effect by feeding a grower with oyster shell on the side. If you do not provide any calcium it is possible that the birds will continue to lay but with very thin shelled or shell-less eggs which can result in some health issues. Less calcium will not effect hormones/ovulation, just the bodies ability to make a shell. Lowering protein and nutrion will likely effect laying but because it is effecting their overall health is my understanding.

Chickens lay as much as they do because of domestication and generations and generations of breeding this laying behavior into them. Some heretage breeds can tend to mature a bit slower, lay a little less frequently and for a bit longer overall than more modern commercial breeds. But, this is not a result of food.

Some people add a light to the coop in the winter to keep enough "daylight" so the birds will lay through the winter. Not providing a light may have a small impact on what you are describing but it would be relatively small.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Keep in mind a hen has a finite number of eggs she's going to lay in her lifetime and this predetermined number varies hen to hen. For longevity of laying years there are two things you can do. First is to keep a flock of non production birds. Hatchery birds are mixed breeds with intent to produce most eggs in the first years of life. Heritage birds, pure breeds, produce fewer eggs per week but just as many eggs in a lifetime so lay well for more years. Secondly do not provide lighting in your winter months to increase egg laying. Artificial lighting during darker months prevents the lull in egg production but again if the hen lays them now she'll lay less to none in future years.

Your feed does have an effect on egg production but it obviously has an effect on overall health too. Blended feeds you purchase are the advent of a century of science and observation. Purchase the product you want/need for intended purpose and rest assured your birds will be healthy. Non medicated starter-grower is perfect if oyster shells are supplemented on side for layers. I use layer blends because it comes in pellet form which eliminates waste. Super high protein blends are not needed for chickens and cost more. I don't think the cheaper cost of scratch and manually mixing reduces costs and actually attributes to more waste as chickens throw food to ground searching for the oat kernel. Personally I'm still searching for a pellet feed with low calcium that's around 18% protein to feed all my birds. Laying hens will eat oyster shells in separate dish as they need it and other birds, adolescents and roosters, wont be ill effected by too much calcium. You've probably guessed, I don't use scratch. My birds don't like the corn and we give them plenty of table scraps for treats and sunflower seed in winter for warming fat content.

 

[Ridgerunner]

People are not paid to set around and answer these questions as soon as they are posted. A lot of times the right people aren’t setting here ready to respond. And things do sometimes get lost on here. There is a whole lot of traffic on this forum. I’ve had several questions get lost on here. Whether the right person answers or not is just luck.

Editted to add: you have had a couple of good people respond this morning. It's just luck when that happens.

You are not going to control how often they lay by what you feed them. The more protein they eat, the bigger the eggs will be but how often they lay is controlled more by heredity than diet. I don’t know the protein content of the scratch you are feeding them, so I can’t give anything specific about what you are doing. Many scratch mixed are a little low on protein and high in fats but it really depends on what grains are in your mix. Regular chicken feed contains various additives, minerals, vitamins, and special proteins that chickens need. I don’t know if your scratch is fortified with anything,

When you are talking about an individual hen, “most” doesn’t apply. Averages don’t mean much to individuals. You need enough hens for the averages to mean anything. If you have a large flock of hens, the average egg production will drop around 15% to 20% after each adult molt. But people on here can tell you of individual hens where her production dropped a lot more than that. Similarly, some individuals produce a lot more than that.

I don’t know of any studies made on how to keep a chicken alive longer. I can make some suggestions on what I think might work, but I really can’t back them up with experience. I raise mine for meat and eggs. I seldom have any chicken live longer than three years. It’s just not one of my goals.

Don’t bring in other chickens. Every time you do you have the risk of introducing a disease. I only get chicks form a hatchery or get hatching eggs and hatch my own to reduce this risk.

Don’t feed real high protein feeds. That causes them to lay larger eggs, especially after they have molted a time or two. Those extra large eggs increase the risk of prolapse or other laying problems. Really high protein levels, like in the range of 30%, is also hard on their liver and kidneys, but you are nowhere near that level. Feeding that much scratch you may actually be a bit low in protein.

Try not to feed a whole lot of fats. It’s not just the obesity thing you would think about, but a hen stores excess energy in a fat pad around her vent area. If that fat pad builds up too much, it can lead to laying problems. High protein foods can lead to a build-up of that fat pad but high fat foods are worse. I process a lot of hens. It’s surprising how much that fat pad can build up even if you’re not overfeeding them. Like the high protein thing above, this does not happen to each and every hen in the world. It’s just something to improve the odds.

Something else I suggest, especially when they are older and not laying as much, is to not feed Layer. Layer has excess calcium which they need for their egg shells when they are laying, but their body has to work harder to get rid of it when they are not laying. I suggest instead you offer oyster shell on the side instead of mixed in with their feed. Most seem to instinctively know how much calcium they need and can self-regulate.

What they really need is a good balanced diet. Chicken feed has that balance of vitamins, minerals, protein, fats, and such. The more other stuff you feed them, the more likely you are to upset that balance. I think feeding half chicken feed and half scratch is way off, upsetting that balance too much. If yours can forage for grass and weeds, grass seeds and weed seeds, and all kinds of creepy crawlies, that isn’t nearly as important as when you are furnishing all they eat. If you are furnishing everything they eat, I’d suggest the chicken feed be maybe 85% to 90% of what they eat and you supplement the rest with a mixture of stuff, some scratch is OK but offer more green stuff or kitchen scraps. Think more in terms of a balanced diet.

That’s about all I can think of. Remember this is just my opinion. I really can’t back it up with experience. This type of stuff is not my goal.

Good luck!

 

[skeer]

thank you all for the immense amount of information. I am not a noob to chickens as I was around them for most of my childhood. However the old folks.. both sets of grandparents, just fed them 'chicken food' and didn't worry about the welfare of their birds unless laying decreased. Our flock is important because of it's eggs however people invariably get attached and we're no different.
Without loads of research I had assumed 'laying pellets' were just that.. feed containing hormones designed to increase egg production. But you folks have correctly me on that, which is good. I just did not want to have a higher turnover rate because of my food choices. We do let the girls out for forage daily for at least 4 hours provided it's not raining. The winter I thought was fairly rough on them but they bounced back with a vigor I was not expecting.

But yeah anyway I choice teh route of a 50/50 scratch and laying pellet mixture based off the advice from a co-worker on how he'd done his two flocks for years. I do see the waste from the birds in the form of laying pellets on teh ground all aroudn the feeder. So I have been trying to think of ways to combat that. What compounds my situation is that we have a pair of Pekin ducks that also live with the chickens... seperating feed is all but impossible. After much Googling prior to allowing my daughter to get them a few months ago led us to believe that ducks and chickens living together could be a harmonious experience and doubling that that ducks could live just fine on the same food the chickens are eating. (They also forage just as much as the chickens do)

I get all my feed from Tractor Supply.. so the layer provides 16% and the scratch another 8.50% protein. Couple that with what they find foraging I'd say their protein and calcium needs are being met very well. I do keep a side dish of oyster shell out but knowing now the content in the feed it makes sense why they haven't really touched it. we also give them extras with any leftover mached potatoes, rice or veggies not eaten during dinner. Funny thing seeing a hen with potatoes on boths sides of her face LOL.

Anyway I do appreciate the help and FWIW I do not think people sat around being paid to reply to posts.. I did not expect to have over 20 readers without a single response in the first 20 hours. Maybe my expectations were too high.. in my experiences on a multitude of other forums having a read/write ratio like that usually results in nothing but trolls. Glad I was proven wrong here.

 

[Ridgerunner]

As far as the calcium, they may be getting quite a bit from their environment. Many plants, weeds or things from the garden, give them some calcium. Some bugs and creepy crawlies have calcium in their hard shells. If your native rock contains limestone, they get calcium from the rocks they use as grit.

Let your egg shells tell you how they are doing on calcium. If they are hard, you are doing it right and they are getting plenty. If they are getting enough from their environment or Layer, those oyster shells can last a real long time.

My chickens love to forage in the rain. I think the earthworms come up and are easy prey. It takes a pretty strong storm for them to seek shelter.