Welsummer pattern

[nicalandia]

Welsummers aren’t just gold duckwing/wild type though. They also have the mahogany gene! That is why they are more orangey than gold and why males have solid red (streak free) necks and have red speckling on the breast. A more accurate term for the coloring would be red duckwing. It was especially obvious that mahogany was present when I had a Welsummer crossed with a wheaten Ameraucana.

The OP was asking about the female pattern

 

[DarJones]

Look up the "partridge" gene for a partial explanation. That salt & pepper effect on the feathers is one of the effects of partridge. Columbian is also in the mix given the color contrast of the neck and hackle feathers.

 

[Amer]

Look up the "partridge" gene for a partial explanation. That salt & pepper effect on the feathers is one of the effects of partridge. Columbian is also in the mix given the color contrast of the neck and hackle feathers.

No, it is caused by duckwing, the partridge gene is different and causes brown breasts. Stippling can be stronger in some birds based on selection. Columbian doesn’t cause the neck coloring either, it is also duckwing. Columbian extends gold over the body and pushed black to the neck and tail.

 

[nicalandia]

Look up the "partridge" gene for a partial explanation. That salt & pepper effect on the feathers is one of the effects of partridge. Columbian is also in the mix given the color contrast of the neck and hackle feathers.

You are usually on the mark in about just every post I have seen from you. I am very surprised how off the mark you are on this one

 

[DarJones]

The partridge gene (eb) is one thing while the color partridge is another. I did not clearly indicate the difference.. The color partridge is what I was referencing, not the gene designated as partridge. Welsummer SOP states they are "red partridge". While they also show up as gold duckwing, duckwing is NOT the officially accepted color/type for them. Note the presence of partial double lacing on some of the birds. Also the presence of the salt and pepper effect. If I am reading this correct, these birds are expressing partridge coloring (not necessarily from the partridge gene). Take that a step further. The salt and pepper effect flips colors along the feather resulting is a kind of camouflage which protects the birds from predators.

I have to admit I am a bit confused by one of the aspects of eb. "Partridge (eb) - Males are wildtype but somewhat heavier black striping in hackle. Hens are wildtype but without salmon breast. (Not to be confused with the color Partridge, in which hens are double laced)". By the description, it causes heavier black striping in the hackle. I see heavy black striping in the hackle of the birds that started this thread. I need to look up a couple of photos to see why there is a difference.


https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/genetics-an-attempt-at-simplifying-the-complex.64782/

This page has quite a bit of information in layman's terms. https://www.heritageacresmarket.com/welsummer-chicken/

 

[DarJones]

I thought of one other thing OP might like to know. In crossing Brown Leghorn X Silver Laced Wyandotte, the salt and pepper effect showed up heavily in the F2 to F4 crosses. It is highly suggestive that there is a gene(s) that specifically produce that effect. It is very hard to get rid of when making crosses to a breed that does not carry it.

The pictures also clearly show mahogany which is another color I had to breed away from in my crosses.

 

[pinewoodacres]

The terminology between the U.S. and the UK is a little problematic as “partridge” is different. My understanding is Welsummers are duckwing/wild type/e+ plus Mh mahogany. The boys I had were typical wild type coloring, I guess redder or more orangey. Mine did have some black in the hackle and definitely a black breast so no Co.

I also have Legbars which are also duckwing/wild type/e+ but have barring and gold modifiers (ig gold inhibitor) plus autosomal red.

The two breeds look vastly different but I was particularly curious about that black lacing look on the female Welsummer feathers. I was thinking perhaps it was sex-linked in that the males do not have it but I was unsure of what gene might cause it, if it was considered Pg or what.

Sorry to have confused anyone. I have the basics down on these breeds and I typically overexplain and should have just given the full background in the OP.

 

[Amer]

Ok so stippling is heritable, something that can be selected for or against. Show quality duckwing birds (Leghorns, Welsummers, OEG) are selected to have very light, remarkably even stippling. Your hens have the opposite extreme, very blocky stippling with high amounts of melanin. I have a hatchery hen and somewhat higher quality ones, so I can see both extremes on my farm.
Yes, I think you could pass it on to further generations, I don’t know how well you will see it with barring though.

 

[pinewoodacres]

Ok so stippling is heritable, something that can be selected for or against. Show quality duckwing birds (Leghorns, Welsummers, OEG) are selected to have very light, remarkably even stippling. Your hens have the opposite extreme, very blocky stippling with high amounts of melanin. I have a hatchery hen and somewhat higher quality ones, so I can see both extremes on my farm.
Yes, I think you could pass it on to further generations, I don’t know how well you will see it with barring though.

That’s good to know. The one in the foreground of the pic is much darker than the other two but this is the most recent pic I had to add on here that shows it well enough. I’m not a Welsummer breeder so that part doesn’t really matter to me, they are really means to an end in my project.

 

[pinewoodacres]

Interestingly, I think I better understand what was said about the salt and pepper just being part of the wild type patterning. I noticed this on my week-old chicks this morning. These are BC1 in my project, one should be female and one should be male in the pics. Sure enough, there’s that salt and pepper!

I did also notice that my older Legbar females have it to a small extent if I look closely, especially on their primaries. It’s just harder to see as the contrast is not as stark, maybe due to the barring and gold inhibitor genes.

So, I appreciate all the comments that helped me understand this better!