Welsummer Question

[TammyTX]

Knowing how I like punishment and how much my Wellies hate me, YES I might make more!

I need to check our your club. Dang roos are beautiful, though.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Hi Folks,

It's been awhile. Robin, it's good to see ya still hangin' around. Sorry I ain't been around for a spell but I've been up to my eyeballs in chicks, keets, and other critters.

Let me see if I can quickly answer some of the questions I just read on the four pages of posts.

First, usually the Welsummers will start laying around 24 weeks. Of course, there are many factors that will determine that. There's genetics, the specific feed regimen they are on, the time of season and hours of daylight (or artificial), individual quirks, etc. Generally speaking though, you should have eggs being produced by now if they're 7 months old.

Secondly, the APA standard calls for "Black with red mottling" as the male breast color.

Third, with regard to showing your bird at the State Fair, is it going to be an APA/ABA approved/sanctioned show? I've found most aren't. That being the case, by all means, take your bird. Not the one with crooked toes of course.

Just FYI, and not to be critical, your cockerel does appear to have much too much blue in the picture but that could easily be the photo and not actuality.

If I missed anything, just let me know. I'll subscribe to this post so it should come to my email. Hope this helped!

God Bless,

 

[dizzychicken]

Quote:
Do you happen to have the APA standards website where you found this information. What qualifies are red mottling? I am gonna look my roo over very well tomorrow, because I have never really looked that closely. When the breeder of this flock was pointing out some points on the breed I am pretty sure he said that the breast should be a uniform black. But then again, I really wasn't paying the much attention to everything he was saying because I never planned on showing him or any of his offspring. Would love to see some photos of the APA standard, do you know where to find those?

 

[becky3086]

Mine started laying at about 5 months. They lay a beautiful terricotta egg with no speckling. I really love the hens they are so gentle. Unfortunately, at about two months the roo developed a large bump on one of his knees, I have no idea what happened there but he ended up not being able to walk at all

. I got more eggs and was hoping to hatch out a new roo but ended up with some questionable chicks. Eventually I will get them a roo though, it seems such a shame to not be able to hatch such beautiful eggs.

 

[ging3rhoffman]

Quote:
Alot of hatchery birds are sent to the hatchery from breeders, so how is a breeder bird better than a hatchery bird? How does a breeder bird lay an egg sooner than a hatchery bird?

I have both....i have seen no differences.

 

[enola]

The "breeders" that supply hatcheries are more interested in hatching a large volume of chicks to meet the hatchery's demand. They are not as particular about the breeders in their flocks meeting any standards. As long as the hens and roosters 'look' like the breed, they hatch the eggs for hatcheries.

When someone refers to a "breeder" here on this site, they generally mean someone that is breeding their chickens to meet all APA standards. They will have a much more uniform flock of breeding chickens.

 

[CountryMom]

Quote:
I will have to check my roos over for their breast coloration when I get a breather (another horse show for the next 4 days.) Not to highjack this post so I will post a new one when I can. Tailfeathers and Ewe I hope you can advice me then.

And as far as not laying at 7 months, I am positive my situation is due to the heat. I only really have a couple of hens laying at this time period. With temps averaging above 100 it has been not so normal a summer down here. The only decent time outside is after dark. Considering it was 89 degrees at 10:30 last night, it is just all around too dang hot.

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:

and sometimes the egg color is not all cracked up to be. Buying a Welsummer from the hatchery it is a chance! I've seen too many Welsummer pullets looking like Leghorn shaped bodies. No thanks!

As for the black breasted, I am certain some British folks love that color on their Welsummers and breeds for them. Others like the mottled colors. Like my young Welsummer Bantam roo, he has mostly solid color black with some brown spangled in some areas. He is very young and it will take some time for him to mature.

Tailfeathers, good to see you and glad of your input!

 

[Tailfeathers]

Quote:
The APA does not list individual breed standards on their website. One must buy the book from them. The definition I posted came from the book. I believe the entire Welsummer Standard is posted on the Yahoo Group as well.

As for what qualifies as "red mottling", well, honestly I think that is quite subject and each judge would tell you something different. The main thing is that it cannot be a solid black.

There is a drawing in the 1998 version of the Standard. However, one must look under Barnevelder to see it. The Barnevelder & Welsummer drawings were inadvertently switched. Having said that, I would refer you back to the above. Each judge will make up his or her own mind as to how closely a particular rooster meets the SOP.

God Bless,

 

[Tailfeathers]

Quote:
Enola is right on the money. I was just about to say the exact same thing.

I will just add for further expository purposes what I have said in other previous posts. When looking at the pros and cons of hatchery vs. breeder, one must first define what each means. a "breeder" could supposedly be a hatchery and vice versa. Then one must look at the goals associated with each.

For the purposes of most discussions, a Hatchery is mostly referred to as a business whose primary goals is to make the most money in the shortest amount of time. A Breeder is mostly referred to as an individual whose primary goal is the protection, preservation, perpetuation, and improvement of a selected breed (or breeds), or variety (or varieties) within a breed according to the established Standard of Perfection for the APA and/or ABA.

If one is just looking for a backyard flock that lays nice eggs, one is most likely not concerned with how well an individual bird actually represents the true breed. However, it costs the same to feed a poor looking bird as it does a tremendously nice looking bird.

Rather than repeat what I have said before regarding hatchery Welsummers, I would invite anyone who's interested to do a search on BYC for "Welsummers", "Hatcheries", or such with me as the Author. Granted this is the experience of only one man but I would wager to say that my experience is much more likely to be in the majority than in the minority.

Just as a judge who has a well-trained eye can distinguish between two tremendous birds as to which one he will crown as Champion, so anyone who works with a specific breed for very long will quickly be able to distinguish a hatchery bird from a well-bred bird.

I hope that helps.

God Bless,