Welsummers auto sexing applied to other breeds with the chipmunk pattern

[Knight101]

How were welsummers bred to be auto sexing based on 2 different looking chipmunk patterns? How could this be applied to other breeds? For example an Ameraucana color variety with chipmunk colored chicks.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

As I understand it, and have personally experienced, Welsummer are not truly auto sexing.

They do have some tendencies, which seem to run true in certain closely guarded lines, however, they are not so true that you can call them auto sexing.

The idea is that long eyeliner and a chipmunk bar that is darker and runs from the head, through the neck, down the back, and is tri-color (brown with black and white stripe) is female. Males have blurry chipmunk, light to little eyeliner, and a break between the head and back with only 2 colors of chipmunk.

This follows the wildtype tendencies of partridge. However, it is not fool proof as there are many ambiguous chicks that you have to wait to see what's what.

So it really isn't autosexing. The true autosexing relies on chromosomal color genetics, ie the female is single barred and the male double barred, or male receives the silver down while the female red down.

Few breeds actually are considered autosexing (for example the Cream Legbar). However a number have tendencies that can be useful in carefully controlled and monitored lines, WITHIN that line. Welsummer would fall into that category (as would Barred Rock).

What I've gleaned over the years.

LofMc

 

[Chicks n stuff]

ameraucanas and other chipmunk colored chicks aren’t the same as welsummers.
I personally think welsummers that are easily auto sexing have a little barred rock in them, or welbar if you want to look at it that way.
Male and female welsummer chicks have small but distinct difference between them. In other breeds, like Easter eggers, the difference between individual chicks is random.
When we crossed our Welsummer rooster with Easter egger hens the babies were not auto sexing.
The lightest ones were all male and the darkest colored chicks were mostly females, but there was a good 40% that were an in between and then there were 10% that looked like the opposite sex than we thought they were.
That sums up that we could predict the sex with no more accuracy than just guessing. And we had better wing sexing accuracy with full Easter eggers.
We have full welsummers but we made some olive egger mixes to sell. We are getting out of Easter eggers, but they were my favorite breed for a few years.

I haven’t owned every type of chipmunk colored breed, I think it’s possible that some are more similar to welsummers. Like maybe brown leghorns?
Some auto sexing breeds I personally recommend;
Bielefelder
Welbar
Cream legbar

 

[Chicks n stuff]

As I understand it, and have personally experienced, Welsummer are not truly auto sexing.

They do have some tendencies, which seem to run true in certain closely guarded lines, however, they are not so true that you can call them auto sexing.

The idea is that long eyeliner and a chipmunk bar that is darker and runs from the head, through the neck, down the back, and is tri-color (brown with black and white stripe) is female. Males have blurry chipmunk, light to little eyeliner, and a break between the head and back with only 2 colors of chipmunk.

This follows the wildtype tendencies of partridge. However, it is not fool proof as there are many ambiguous chicks that you have to wait to see what's what.

So it really isn't autosexing. The true autosexing relies on chromosomal color genetics, ie the female is single barred and the male double barred, or male receives the silver down while the female red down.

Few breeds actually are considered autosexing (for example the Cream Legbar). However a number have tendencies that can be useful in carefully controlled and monitored lines, WITHIN that line. Welsummer would fall into that category (as would Barred Rock).

What I've gleaned over the years.

LofMc

This is an accurate description.

Like these are the obvious male and female example. But there are chicks that don’t fallow the rules and chicks that are an in between. I call them ambiguous chicks.

 

[nicalandia]

I personally think welsummers that are easily auto sexing have a little barred rock in them, or welbar if you want to look at it that way.

You can breed for chick down ease of sexing on males or females. But this trait in Welsummers have nothing to do with any BR or Welbar ancestry or introgression for ease of sexing.

 

[Chicks n stuff]

You can breed for chick down ease of sexing on males or females. But this trait in Welsummers have nothing to do with any BR or Welbar ancestry or introgression for ease of sexing.

I can’t prove that they do, not that I would want to spend the time to do such a thing even if I could. Can you prove that the modern Welsummer it entirely not a small part barred type breed.
I think it’s probable considering the welbar x welsummer cross results in a percentage of offspring are indistinguishable from a full Welsummer. But they are more easily sexed as chicks.
Breed some welsummer and welbars and come back.
And the exact breeds used to make the breed are unknown.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

I can’t prove that they do, not that I would want to spend the time to do such a thing even if I could. Can you prove that the modern Welsummer it entirely not a small part barred type breed.
I think it’s probable considering the welbar x welsummer cross results in a percentage of offspring are indistinguishable from a full Welsummer. But they are more easily sexed as chicks.
Breed some welsummer and welbars and come back.
And the exact breeds used to make the breed are unknown. View attachment 3337582View attachment 3337583View attachment 3337584

The barring gene is very persistent and obvious. If it's present, you can see it. Welsumers are not barred, barring has nothing to do with their sexability. There's not much mystery there.

Duckwing pattern birds in general can be bred for sexing chicks at hatch. My standardbred brown leghorns are as easy to sex at hatch as my legbars, for example. Both require equal selection for this trait and it is improved with linebreeding and scrambled easily when you cross different lines. This is also true of the legbars, though.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

How were welsummers bred to be auto sexing based on 2 different looking chipmunk patterns? How could this be applied to other breeds? For example an Ameraucana color variety with chipmunk colored chicks.

Is there an Ameraucana variety with wildtype chick down? Oh, silvers. This doesn't work with wheaten. Yes, I do believe with diligent selection you could sex Silver Ameraucana chicks at hatch eventually. If you were to establish a gold duckwing version of the Ameraucana you could probably eventually achieve this as well. Some modifier genes improve sexing at hatch, such as barring, and some make it impossible, such as mottling.