What age can kittens be spayed?

[Animalfisherwoman]

If you (generic you) have come across a kitten or cat, please either take it in as an indoor cat, humanely trap it and take it to SPCA, or at least ignore it. Unpopular opinion, but feral/outside cats are a real threat to wildlife as well as other people's potential pets.

 

[OG Anomaly]

Aww so cute! So nice to hear your taking care of her.
We recently had a starving mother cat come to our house and started feeding her. About 4 days later she brought all 5 of her kittens! She stayed for another week or two and then left. We're pretty sure the kittens are around 12-16 weeks old.
There is an organization called "Operation Pets" that will take the kittens in Sept and spay & neuter them for $25 each. They'll also supply the live traps and (because I'm disabled) will also provide transportation. They're just awesome! They did this for our last stray-turned-pet and it went very well.
I'm not sure how big the group is, but maybe they're in your area and can help you out...?
Good luck and thank you for helping the baby

P.S. If you want a couple more, just let me know!

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

OG Anomaly, if these kittens are socialized and you don't have room, please take them to your SPCA. The rate of euthanasia for socialized healthy kittens of that age at mine, anyway, is zero. If they have not been socialized, meaning at 3-4 months you put out food and don't see them, they are not likely to adapt as house pets, but again, trapping them and turning them over to SPCA to find homes is humane and responsible. They will try. Whereas a group that just traps them, neuters them, and sets them out wild among wildlife is not necessarily humane to them nor to wildlife. These cats are destined within 2-3 years to be roadkill, or ripped open by raccoons that are now dependent on a well-meaning volunteer's stockpile of food, after said cats have torn dozens of rabbits, burrowing owls, quail, whatever other indigenous wildlife apart to also die slow deaths also.

Cats are very cute, and it is easy to see just that. But saving feral cats from euthanasia so they can be run or torn apart, and tear apart indigenous wildlife before that happens is not necessarily humane for anyone.

 

[chickendreams24]

I must respectfully disagree with the above post.

I'm not saying cats can't cause problems not at all but where I am at in the US they pose little threat to wildlife and there us little wildlife here that is in danger or endangered either one.

I don't particularly care for outside cats but I don't think they should all be exterminated. TNR works wonders and if people take care of the problems that we cause by not allowing ferals to breed out of control then the problem solves itself eventually.

Having cared for, fed, loved and disbanded a feral cat colony in my home town I feel I have a unique view of ferals. I spent years caring for them and gaining their trust. Very few showed any interest in "prey" when they were full. Kittens chased shadows and I have photos of wild rabbits, squirrels, feral cats, and multiple species of wild birds all over my deck living together completely in peace.

I will expand on this post tomorrow if I remember as I must get some sleep now.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

Chickendreams24, thanks for your well-thought out post.

I, too, can speak only from what I observe in my neck of the woods, which is Northern California. Generally, there was a catch-and-euth policy around shoreline areas into the 1990s. People sued, and that policy was replaced with TNR. Since that time, the burrowing owls, quail and bunnies have disappeared. There is no more sound of frogs in the springtime. The excess of cat food has exploded the skunk and raccoon populations, which also tear up cats. Toxoplasmosis, a reservoir only in domestic cats, has for the first time appeared in sea mammals. Every year, dozens of 4-8 week old kittens come pouring into the shelter. Every year, grown men come in crying with a gut ripped cat, their personal house cat, that got torn apart by a feral or a raccoon, and who has to be euthed. More and more, every year.

If one fertile female is missed out of a TNR population, up to 71 more cats could result. In addition, even if TNR'd and well fed, a cat will kill for fun and play. The solution is to not let feral cats roam around, just as we do not allow feral dogs to roam around.

 

[cassie]

Hello. I worked for an animal shelter for over eight years. Eight weeks is generally correct. From what I have seen, this animal as seen in the first pictures is old enough to spay/neuter, though only a vet can determine that. Some SPCAs spay/neuter at deep discount to private practice (mine was about $50, free through mobile spay-neuter), whereas others charge private vet rates. Check your county and the ones nearest it.

Just because cats can be spayed or neutered very early doesn't mean they should be. The reason shelters spay and neuter animals so early is that they want to be sure it gets done before they go to their new home. Otherwise it may not get done at all. They want to ensure that the animal does not reproduce and I don't blame them. However, it is not because it is best for the animal. It isn't.

 

[chickendreams24]

It is clear that you guys have a major problem out there. Although I've never heard of a cat eating a frog I suppose if they're desperate.

The raccoons would unfortunately be there with or without the cat food as would many many other animals.

I've never heard of burrowing owls they aren't around here. I can see how the cats could be a major problem in that instance. Rabbits are everywhere and I doubt they're gone but yes their numbers are likely cut back quite a bit.

Now maybe your ferals are different but again ours never hunted when they weren't hungry they didn't need to.

The only cats we had a problem with hunting when they weren't hungry were the neighbors two indoor/outdoor cats and they did it for sport.

We tamed and found homes for the colony and they make great pets. It's true it does take them time to learn to trust but that's the biggest thing. Once you earn a feral's trust there's nothing they won't do for you or let you do to them and it's for life although rough treatment can of course break that trust just like any domestic animal. We have 5 indoor cats(all 5 were from ferals, four were bottle babies and the fifth I saved from running in front of the tires of a semi at 1 year old. All are amazing pets trained to stay off the counter and tables and use their litter boxes religiously. They don't claw the furniture and have been taught to use cat trees, Emery boards and cardboard boxes. 3 of them are my personal cats one is my brother's and one my mother's)

I've tamed many feral cats older than 3-6 months. Even feral tom cats. To the point that if I had let them they would happily have walked inside(and a couple managed to get into the kitchen before I could get them out on more than one occasion) I had a number of toms that were super tame one in particular stands out. We called him Daddy and indeed I have his son that is the spitting image of him. He showed up after being in a fight huge open wounds(unfortunately it's extremely difficult to find a local TNR place around here - and our funds were limited. We did what we could and by taking the cats and finding them homes we were able to place them as house cats and know they then went to the vet and got fixed.) on his shoulders and behind his ears. He stood stoically purring and actually made his care difficult while my mother and I cleaned him up as he kept trying to love on us. My mother was a nurse and her and I both had years of experience with animals. Being bites we knew the vet wouldn't stitch them up. We called our vet got antibiotics and treated him at home. He was a pretty small tom cat but huge with muscles! LOL when he would try to walk into our house and we would go to move him gently out of the way with a foot it would be hard to move him. I'm not kidding. He eventually found a home and a great life as a pampered pet.

Of course I didn't want to risk my personal cats which is why I didn't let the ferals in. Although I will say other than eye infections in the kittens(there were 3 litters while we cared for the colony-4 actually but one mother lost the babies I believe they were all stillborn), 1 case of pneumonia (which I believe was actually an abandoned house cat), and one respiratory infection that went through part of the colony (one very very early spring) none of the cats was ever sick. There were never fleas or ear mites. None of the cats ever had a positive FeLV FIV test come back. They were completely healthy.

The litter of kittens we took in and raised were from a mother that came down with the respiratory illness and almost died. Her milk dried up and she brought us her 2.5-3 week old babies because she trusted us. We treated the mother with antibiotics and she made a full recovery. We kept two from that litter of four.
Before that litter we took in a singleton (actually the above kittens' uncle) a litter was born in our garage and we accidentally found them. The mother moved them but abandoned one kitten in our front bushes at two weeks old with a severe eye infection. He was tiny and underweight. We have no idea how long he was alone for. The vet didn't think he would survive but he did- he is "Daddy's" son. We had him for two weeks feeding every hour during the day every 1-2 hours at night and after two weeks he was still less than two tenths of a pound. It took him a while to catch up and just like his Daddy he isn't a huge cat. In spite of being neutered and never having to fight he is very muscular.

The final feral kitty we have that was bottle fed is from a different colony. Her mother and litter mates were hit by a lawn mower accidentally when some tall grass was being mowed. Not by us. She was only a day old at most. It's possible the mother didn't leave the litter because she was still in labor or maybe she was just a good Mom. Unfortunately this one kitten was the only survivor and the odds were stacked against her. She survived and is a sweet spunky little cat.

3/5 of our cats play fetch like dogs all come when called etc etc.

Ferals aren't evil killing machines.

It's not their fault that they exist. Every feral colony I know of started in one of 2 ways either someone abandoned an unfixed female cat(or multiple cats) or people had barn cats that weren't fixed and they couldn't find the litters to acclimate them to people so the litters went wild. I will amend that some feral colonies also start with a person throwing an unwanted litter of kittens had by their unfixed house cat outside, although most of them don't survive when tossed out like this.

People are the problem in allall those equations. Cats are built to survive and no not all survive but many do and those that do have stronger offspring that have a better chance of surviving. The knowledge is passed on for generations.

In my rural area many people have barn cats some fixed and some not, it's unfortunate, but the cats learn things such as to stay out of the road and look before crossing. They're taught this by their mothers.

Maybe what is needed is more feral santuaries. Similar to The Cat House on the Kings but the cats wouldn't have to be adoptable if they never became tame. Just like The Cat House on The Kings they could live out their natural lives there with only minimal human contact if that's what they want. Fenced safe where the cats that are trapped are placed after being fixed and receiving medical care. Food and water is provided and the cats live out their lives in safety and keeping wildlife safe as well.

We created the problem and only we can fix it. Those cats didn't ask for the existence they have and I don't think they deserve to die for it. Obviously spaying and neutering is extremely important and the first step to any over population problem. It shouldn't be a death sentence just to have been born. Obviously there are exceptions to any rule and their numbers do need to be managed.

Also feral dogs are a huge problem world wide and even in the US simply because people don't fix their pets. So many people breed their pets and don't think about how many are out there dieing in shelters and out of shelters running wild and even starving.

Male dogs will go miles to reach a female in heat and so will male unneutered cats. Females go crazy and may try to escape to find a mate. They can't help it it's in their wiring. I've heard so many stories of people who had cats in the house that ran out of an open door while in heat and came back pregnant. Dogs too.

My mother as a child grew up on a farm. Their neighbors had a stallion and a mare in season separated by a fence. Long story short they bred through the fence when no one was looking and no one could figure it out.

Also I want to point out that although wild animals will breed more readily when there is food to be had most of the problems humanity is facing with raccoons, groundhogs, opossums, skunks, rats, even coyotes and foxes are of our own making because we encroached on their land and continue to do so. We disrupted the natural balanced ecosystem and tried to create our own artificial one in our minds where wild animals move on and find their own spaces. This may be true in some cases but more and more wild life is entering the suburbs and even the cities. Why? Because they were there first and they're looking for territory. The numbers of prey animals explode because we removed the predators cougar, bear, coyote, bobcat, fox, wolf these tend to avoid people more especially the larger ones but even they are becoming more accustomed and desensitized to people. The smaller predators are finding that not only do they have less competition in the cities and suburbs but the humans aren't a threat and they have tasty house pets and leave garbage laying around. It's a regular buffet for them.

Any responsible person will not only clean their trash up but if they care for feral cats won't leave food down all the time. Rodents do breed more with access to higher protein food. People who care for feral colonies should and responsible ones will feed once or twice a day with multiple dishes spread around so the lower ranking cats(because feral cats have a hierarchy and most in my experience are matriarchal like elephants and wild horse herds) can also eat simultaneously. They then back off and allow the cats 20 minutes to an hour to eat before picking up the dishes of food.
In this way any food that could get spilled is not a detriment and will not have an impact on local wildlife numbers or draw in raccoons or other such animals. The cats generally clean the crumbs up after you leave and then go and lay down for a nap.

This applies to any kind of animal food and not just cat food fed to feral cats. Dog food and endless supplies of feed left out for chickens or any kind of stock will have the same effect.

The main problem with any wildlife is when they become accustomed to people as a source of food and lose their fear. In this instance I am referring to true wildlife that is natural and not just animals that have gone feral. Even gophers in large numbers can be a danger to pets and property. Digging so many hole and animal can step in, especially when running and blow out a knee or otherwise get injured. While the threat from a gopher is less than a large group of raccoons with no fear of people there is still a threat and just like the feral cat populations that need to be managed and controlled so too do the numbers of any species that gets out of control due to the lack of balance humans have created. Raccoons, skunks, and opposums can be predatory species and if the numbers are as high as you mention they can also have lowered the numbers of some of the animals you mentioned. Raccoons love water and wash their food frogs would be high on their list. Any of those species would kill a small bird if they could get to it so I would say it's highly possible they are part of the problem with the owls and would also kill small rabbit kits either in the nest or just fresh out of the nest as well.

It's very easy to just blame the feral cats but most of the time feral cats prefer to hunt mice, rats, gophers and yes some do prefer birds and rabbits but most cats are not very good hunters of birds they have a much better chance of catching a small ground rodent.

As for quail yes their defenses are not the best particularly at night when cats, coons, possums, and skunks generally like to hunt.

Now as for house cats or indoor/outdoor cats being injured when they are outside well I'm sorry but no house cat should ever be let outside unattended. They're not equipped for survival and most have no idea about predators roads etc. Not only that but if there is a know local feral cat colony it is just stupid as the ferals will defend their territory. Cat colonies have strict rules and they won't realize that a pampered pet was never taught regular cat ettiquette by it's mother.
Most indoor/outdoor cats don't know how to hunt properly but would love the chance to play to death with prey(feral cats and any real predator want to kill the prey asap to avoid being injured and to avoid expending extra energy). Hunting is a skill that is taught by the mother cats and also that is practiced and learned it's true it isn't perfect right off the bat. Mother cats often catch and give kittens live mice to learn with. This is a process and each time a mouse is given the mother cat allows the kittens to have it longer before killing it. Eventually she stops killing the prey and allows them to succeed for themselves.

Any cat that is a pet is usually taken from the mother before it can learn normal cat things such as hunting and about danger however if the cat was raised inside it is completely ill-equipped to go outside. Many house cats are also declawed in the front or in both sets of feet meaning they have no defense, this greatly reduces the cat's possibility of survival whether its in a pet that has been let out, escaped, or a cat that is abandoned. Some states have outlawed it it's true and they should but not all have.

Just like wild lions in a fight cats will naturally when being attacked(especially by another cat) flip on their backs to have the advantage of being able to access the soft belly of the attacker. House cats have never had to fight for their lives but house cats let outside may instinctively try to take on a feral in their yard(they consider it their turf even if they've never been outside before because they see it through the windows). The feral is the "intruder" right? But not in the eyes of the feral and the house cat usually has no experience with a real fight leaving them little chance of winning. For the same reason a house cat that comes against another predator won't know to avoid coons and possums or how to act against a fox or how to escape a coyote.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

Hi CD 24 and Cassie, thanks for your replies.

Your observations about animals getting into people's trash, and people needing to pick up pet food/dishes to discourage this is spot on. Absolutely. If people feed ferals/semi-ferals and consider them great pets, I think that can be a win-win if said owner (and that person is by law one, here, by feeding said cats), assiduously controls the population via TNR and the cats are kept on the person's property. This realistically is humanely possible more in ex-urban/rural situations more than, say, a 1BR apartment.

Where I don't agree is having individuals or groups assume ownership of cats as "cool pets" but being fine with them roaming public shorelines/parks that were set up to protect indigenous wildlife as opposed to a cat sanctuary. Especially in an pressured urban setting, they cannot be both.