What chickens free ranging in a traditional management system eat I.E. how it was done before commercial feeds

[Perris]

I laugh at the fat being a kind of carb.

In so far as fat is how the body stores excess calories, if those calories came in as carbs, it is.

But I have no doubt currant knowledge is off too.

Spector says: "Again, the problem is our eagerness to oversimplify. 'Carbohydrates' is an overused umbrella term that scientifically includes all types of sugar, starch and fibre found in plants. Each of these three carb groups has very different effects on the body, but we foolishly lump them together. Studies and experts are highly divided on whether eating high carbohydrate diets (which also means low fat) are good or bad for you. Most US-led guidelines recommend higher carb intakes. But the large PURE study of 18 populations in 5 continents showed the opposite effect on mortality." p. xvi

 

[Sally PB]

Answers usually lead to more questions. That is okay.

Better than ok, it's how we learn. When we stop asking questions, we stop learning.

But some questions teach us more than others.

I read this somewhere:
Smart people ask a lot of questions.
Intelligent people find a lot of answers.
Wise people learn what questions to ask.

 

[3KillerBs]

"Cabbage, sown thickly in rows and fed from these sowings without waiting for heads, has been found one of the most economical of green foods."

Interesting.

I find that my chickens go absolutely bonkers for collard greens -- which are a form of non-heading cabbage.

My SIL frequently gets them from the food pantry and gives them to use because she dislikes them. Naturally, at this point they are often wilted and yellowing, but the chickens eat them eagerly.

Studies and experts are highly divided on whether eating high carbohydrate diets (which also means low fat) are good or bad for you. Most US-led guidelines recommend higher carb intakes. But the large PURE study of 18 populations in 5 continents showed the opposite effect on mortality." p. xvi

I'm sure it depends on individual biology and activity level.

My DH is type 2 diabetic and I'm PCOS. We both benefit from a low-carb diet. But our active 17yo who is developing an interest in weight training can eat just about anything that doesn't eat him first without issue.

 

[Sally PB]

But our active 17yo who is developing an interest in weight training can eat just about anything that doesn't eat him first without issue.

My hubby was like that. It's a different story now that he's 60.

Youth is truly wasted on the young.

 

[saysfaa]

I'm delighted to find a treasure at an estate sale today - "Livestock Enterprises" edited by Kary C Davis. It was published in 1928 by Lippencott and one of the seven sections is poultry.

Snippets I find interesting include:
"Ninety percent of all farms have poultry, and there are larger numbers of backyard flocks."

"[The family-farm-sized flocks] range in size from 50 to 300 hens and produce the bulk of the poultry products [consumed in the US]"

"Many people in towns and villages keep a small flock of hens in order to have a supply of fresh eggs and meat. These flocks have increased recently because of the widespread interest in poultry and comparatively high prices of poultry products."

"Recent Achievements in Poultry Keeping.
- 1. The Development of High Egg-Laying Strains. -The hen in her wild environment usually laid from 12 to 18 eggs a year. ...

Trap nests allowed records of the number of eggs a given hen lays. They "frequently range from 40 to 200 eggs [per year] for hens in the same flock"

"An analysis of the record of a flock producing the United State's average of 55 eggs would show the following facts: a few hens producing a small number of eggs, perhaps as low as 20 or 30; a few producing a comparatively large amount, as high as 140 to 160 eggs; The remainder can be distributed on a scale between these two extremes."

"How can we raise the flock average? The only possible way is by cutting off the low end of the scale. We would still have a wide range of production among individuals, but the average would move up the scale. ... example in the case of a flock of Barred Plymouth Rocks, the average production moved up from 80 eggs in the first year to 180 in the sixth year.

"Recent experiments have shown that the capacity for high egg production is inherited... By trap-nesting flocks and using for breeding stock only 200-egg hens and males from 200-egg hens, poultry breeders have been able to produce laying flocks averaging 140, 160, and even a high as 180 eggs per hen. It is quite common to find individual hens producing between 250 and 300 eggs and breeding flocks averaging 200 eggs per hen. This is a remarkable achievement in the science of poultry breeding."

"Hens cannot be expected to lay more than from 4 to 6 eggs per week even during their highest producing period..."

"Fig. 214 [a picture of a hen] - An unusual performance record. Missouri Ann ... has to her credit a yearly total of 200 eggs and a total record of more than 1000 eggs. It is significant that seven of her daughters have made records of more than 200 eggs a year."

"Fig. 215 [a picture of a hen] - A hen that has laid 287 eggs during her pullet year. ... This hen shows the vigor and vitality required for high egg production."

 

[saysfaa]

Continuing snippets from the same book.

"Conditions Usually Found.
- (1). The average farm flock does not consume sufficient feed for profitable egg production.
-(2). The hens receive little or no grain while on range from early spring until late fall.
-(3). They do not usually receive sufficient green feed or its equivalent during the winter, nor sufficient animal protein and minerals."

"... big problem is to get the right balance of feed nutrients. ... What would happen if the hen were fed on wheat alone? She would get enough protein to make an egg about every three days, enough lime to make an egg every 12 days, and enough carbohydrates and fat to make three eggs a day. ... the hen will frequently take the lacking materials from her own body, thus weakening it for future production."

"If the hen has an insufficient amount of the right kind of protein, she will not lay eggs."

"Experiments show that protein of other plant origin will not supplement grain protein very efficiently. For example, linseed-meal and corn-meal proteins will not work well together. The same is true of other plant proteins such as soybean meal, cottonseed meal, and gluten feed. ... where a mixture of the proteins of corn and linseed meal showed an efficiency of growth of less than 40, skim-milk and corn showed an efficiency of 65."

"Vitamins. - Little is known about these substances except that their absence results in malnutrition. Especially is this true for high-producing hens which are under an intense nervous strain."

"Green feed or its equivalent is one of the vital parts of the ration for laying hens and is frequently one of the most difficult to supply. In summer, this can be supplied by good range. After the range is depleted in late summer, cabbage is the most easily provided. ... Experiments show that alfalfa, red clover, or soybean hay gives satisfactory results. The hay should be cut when the plants are immature, to ensure a large proportion of the green leaves which are rich in vitamins. It must be cured without getting wet and must be of high quality. Soybean hay should be cured when the seeds are beginning to form in the pods. ... Hay kept before hens at all times."

Edit to fix typos

 

[saysfaa]

Continuing snippets from the same book.

"From 40 to 50 per cent of the chicks on the average farm die before reaching maturity and many others are so weakened that they do not develop normally. ... this loss should not exceed 15 or 20 per cent."

"Ohio's Big Ten Rules for Raising Chicks.
...
-4. Do not feed too soon.
-5. Feed a wholesome, well-balanced diet"
-6. Feed large amounts of milk.
-7. Provide green feed liberally at all times.
..."

"Chicks should be given nothing to eat or drink for at least 48 hours after hatch is completed; and some prefer to wait 72 hours. The exact time will be determined by the chicks calling so lustily as to leave no uncertainty about their being hungry. It has been found that when feeding is delayed the yolk material ... is more satisfactorily absorbed."

".. raised on all mash [as opposed to mash and scratch]... day-old chicks to mature pullets...well-developed, vigorous pullets ... mortality was exceptionally low...
Ground yellow corn... 72 lbs
Winter wheat middlings... 20 lbs
Meat scraps... 5 lbs
Raw bone meal (chick size)... 2 lb
Salt... 1 lb
Skim milk (sweet or sour) was given to drink instead of water during the first 10 or 12 weeks."

"Milk is the best source of protein yet discovered for chicks."

"Earthenware or wooden troughs make good containers for milk. Galvanized vessels should never be used."

"While chicks are confined to the house they should be given green feed at all times. Green clover, alfalfa, blue-grass, dandelions, rape, and lettuce are excellent."

"Pullets should remain on free range. Where there is plenty of green feed and bugs, until they are fully mature and have stored up a surplus of body fat."

"... the tree is the most economical and the most healthful summer poultry house."

 

[saysfaa]

One of the things I find interesting is the size of typical farm flocks. I pictured a backyard-sized flock (up to a couple dozen hens) as typical on the farms. I didn't realize so many were from 50 to 300. That is too many to get much grain spilled by the cows and horses and such even assuming the larger animals were fed much grain.

One thing that doesn't come across in the snippets as much as in the book is how the author believed nutrition was the limiting factor of egg production - even genetics is portrayed as better able to use the feed.

I think the researchers couldn't get combinations of plants to cover the need for protein because they didn't know about MET. Maybe there is a plant source high enough but it was not among the plants they tried.

Edit fix typos

 

[Perris]

thanks for these @saysfaa ; it chimes well with my reading, my experience, and my homemade feed.
For example, https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/interwar-recipes-for-chicken-feed.1605509/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-many-eggs-were-laid-by-hens-150-years-ago.1593024/

 

[saysfaa]

thanks for these @saysfaa ; it chimes well with my reading, my experience, and my homemade feed.
For example, https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/interwar-recipes-for-chicken-feed.1605509/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-many-eggs-were-laid-by-hens-150-years-ago.1593024/

Maybe it chimes well with your way. Your way of doing homemade feed works well. I don't think the farms' way worked well at all. Even before there was much breeding for higher production, the chickens weren't getting enough nutrition for reasonable survival rates much less good health for many of the chickens. Most of the time. I'm sure a few farmers were more observation or lucky and provided better pasture/feed.

On the other hand, some of the better ways the book recommends instead of the typical older ways is what I think you are doing.