What does purebred mean

[gunslinger33]

I would like to know what purebred means to different people , especially in chicken breeding.

I ask this because I am asked all the time if my Orps and Biels are purebred. My response is .................... I bought them as purebred but I cannot confirm this. Chickens have no registration record of Sires and Dams. Just because it looks like it should doesn't mean to me that it is "purebred". I say this from a dog breeder / show dog experience. I don't know anyone pulling DNA straws on chickens to test their purity.

I have read many posts where people are introducing other breeds to improve something (lacing , feathering , leg color , comb ... ect) Is this now a crossbreed and not a purebred xxxx? Even if it looks like the SOP is written?

From my world just because a representative does or doesn't meet the SOP doesn't mean that the animal is not purebred , it's just a poor representation of that breed.

 

[FeatheredFriends&Horses2]

I would like to know what purebred means to different people , especially in chicken breeding.

I ask this because I am asked all the time if my Orps and Biels are purebred. My response is .................... I bought them as purebred but I cannot confirm this. Chickens have no registration record of Sires and Dams. Just because it looks like it should doesn't mean to me that it is "purebred". I say this from a dog breeder / show dog experience. I don't know anyone pulling DNA straws on chickens to test their purity.

I have read many posts where people are introducing other breeds to improve something (lacing , feathering , leg color , comb ... ect) Is this now a crossbreed and not a purebred xxxx? Even if it looks like the SOP is written?

From my world just because a representative does or doesn't meet the SOP doesn't mean that the animal is not purebred , it's just a poor representation of that breed.

You know, I've wondered the same thing. I really think it has everything to do with the SOP, as it doesn't seem like a generational thing. If it were, wouldn't Americaunas be allowed to show?

 

[GoldpartridgeHen]

If you cross the same breed with different features together (even to improve certain features, it is still purebreed
It isn't purebreed any more if you breed two different breeds together.

All hybrids are purebreeds crossed with each other to produce better.
was that what you meant?

 

[humblehillsfarm]

I would like to know what purebred means to different people , especially in chicken breeding.

I ask this because I am asked all the time if my Orps and Biels are purebred. My response is .................... I bought them as purebred but I cannot confirm this. Chickens have no registration record of Sires and Dams. Just because it looks like it should doesn't mean to me that it is "purebred". I say this from a dog breeder / show dog experience. I don't know anyone pulling DNA straws on chickens to test their purity.

I have read many posts where people are introducing other breeds to improve something (lacing , feathering , leg color , comb ... ect) Is this now a crossbreed and not a purebred xxxx? Even if it looks like the SOP is written?

From my world just because a representative does or doesn't meet the SOP doesn't mean that the animal is not purebred , it's just a poor representation of that breed.

I believe in most cases breed purity is determined by meeting breed standards. For example, comb type, allowed feather coloring, number of toes, feathered legs or nah, bearded/unbearded, egg color, etc. This would, in theory, mean a breed line could be "unpure" but if the resulting bird conforms to breed standards, it would be considered pure bred.

 

[gunslinger33]

I was just curious to people's thought what purebred means.

I am amazed at all the 'trollers" that are quick to say 'that isn't a purebred". I was surprised that they knew the individual chicken's origin to make that statement.

Many do not meet the SOP , so are those not purebred? Most dogs with many many many generations of pedigrees do not meet the Breed Standard but would be considered as purebred. I am not a huge AKC fan because I feel there is not enough breeding control but at least you are able to see the generations to give you some comfort the animal will be what you expect.

All of the definitions I have found state "unmixed descent" or similar to those terms with no specific mention of breed standard.

 

[humblehillsfarm]

I was just curious to people's thought what purebred means.

I am amazed at all the 'trollers" that are quick to say 'that isn't a purebred". I was surprised that they knew the individual chicken's origin to make that statement.

Many do not meet the SOP , so are those not purebred? Most dogs with many many many generations of pedigrees do not meet the Breed Standard but would be considered as purebred. I am not a huge AKC fan because I feel there is not enough breeding control but at least you are able to see the generations to give you some comfort the animal will be what you expect.

All of the definitions I have found state "unmixed descent" or similar to those terms with no specific mention of breed standard.

I would still say those with known "pure bred" lineage are pure bred, but I am not an expert. All of my flock came from a hatchery! The most I've looked into it was to investigate the purity of my Ameraucana's line. I was hoping someone else would hop onto this thread. I'm sure you can google the question too.

 

[gunslinger33]

Sure I've looked and I do not see anyway someone can make the purebred statement. I could be wrong.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

interesting thread. Not knowledgeable enough to offer any input, though, but am curious. Got BA from a hatchery this year, and many of them have white on their primary feathers. Does this mean they are not pure BA, and if not, what else might they be? Not that it matters as I neither show nor breed. Just wondering.

 

[Sydney Acres]

I've been first in the mammal world of livestock, and then for the last 20 years in the chicken world. I struggled with this quite a bit at first, but have come to accept it.

There are two different ways of expressing the "breed-worthiness" of an animal. In mammals (dogs, cats, horses, cattle, sheep, goats, etc) a "purebred" system is used. In poultry, a "Standard bred" system is used. Note that purebred is not capitalized, whereas Standard bred is capitalized.

The term purebred refers to a traceable lineage where there have been no outcrossings with different breeds (or in some rare breeds, there are acceptable limited outcrossings, which is not common). The offspring is considered purebred if both the dam and all possible sires are known purebred. The specific sire does not need to be known for an animal to be purebred (ie, a flock of sheep, all purebreds, with 3 rams kept in a pasture with 100 ewes -- all the possible sires are purebred, but which specific ram sired any particular lamb is impossible to know without genetic testing). If the specific sire is known (either because it is the only possible sire, or through genetic testing), and both the sire and dam are registered, then the offspring can be registered. That is what is required for a mammal to be considered purebred, or to be eligible to be a registered purebred. Absolutely nothing is required other than word of mouth, or if registered a paper trail, both of which can be false. The other hitch in this system -- it doesn't matter is the animal is a good representative of the breed. You can have an animal that looks nothing like the breed standard in any feature and it is still considered purebred, or even a registered purebred, under this system. As an example, puppy mills crank out thousands of registered purebred puppies every day that look nothing like what is proper for that breed, but they are still registered purebreds, and every one of them is sold for hundreds or even thousands of dollars to naive buyers. That's the purebred system.

The Standard bred system used for poultry comes at the problem from the opposite side. Quality is the ONLY thing that matters! There are established "Standards" for different areas in the world. In the US, there is the American Poultry Association (APA) Standard of Perfection (SOP). In the UK, there is the British Poultry Standard (BPS). There are others too, but those are the two that I am most familiar with. Many non-US/non-UK shows use either the SOP or the BPS as their Standard. The SOP and the BPS are not always the same for the same breed, so a breeder has to decide on their breeding goals -- which Standard are you going to breed towards. Usually it's not an issue, but sometimes it is. As an example, I breed Red Dorkings. They are a UK breed. However, the (US) SOP for them is quite different than the (UK) BPS both in terms of size and color, although most other aspects are similar. As a US breeder, if I were to show them, I would have to choose to either use the BSP and lose shows even if I had excellent birds, or to use the SOP to attempt to win. Since I don't show, it's not an issue for me, but it might be for others if they prefer the Standard of the breed's country of origin instead of their local Standard. But I digress. For poultry, as opposed to mammals, pedigree is irrelevant when judging a bird (obviously, it's not irrelevant when breeding a bird, but that's a different subject), and therefore "purebred" isn't an official thing in poultry. If a bird meets the Standard for that breed, then by definition it is that breed. If someone can create a very poor quality black Cochin that looks exactly like a great quality black Croad Langshan, then by definition that bird is a black Croad Langshan, regardless of genetics. (On the other hand, if someone were to breed a Rottweiler that was such poor quality that it looked like a nice Doberman, it would still be a poor quality Rottweiler, not a good quality Doberman.) With mammals a purebred is defined exclusively by genotype regardless of phenotype. With poultry a Standard bred is defined exclusively by phenotype, regardless of genotype. Or to put it in less technical terms -- with mammals, it can be a purebred regardless of what it looks like, and in poultry it's a Standard bred if it looks like a Standard bred, regardless of what its parents were. Totally different systems, each with great benefits and great flaws.

Now obviously, if you're breeding quality stock, you have to take both aspects into account. As a breeder who selects specific animals for breeding, you will be most successful at consistently producing the best offspring if you know the history of the animal's genetics and the history of the animal's phenotype for several generations back. That usually takes excellent records and the judgement that comes with experience. You can't ignore phenotype if you want to breed quality mammals, because not all buyers are naive enough to think that being a purebred, or even a registered purebred, means anything. And you definitely won't win shows with mammals that don't represent the breed well. With poultry, that one fluke black Cochin that won best of breed as a black Croad Langshan might enjoy its ribbon, but it won't have any value beyond that, as it won't breed true. There's too many variables in its genetics, so it's simply a one-and-done kind of bird. It has no value in the breeding pen until its line starts producing chicks that consistently look like Croad Langshans. At that point, you've recreated the Croad Langshan breed, and your birds are now considered Croad Langshans and are no longer Cochins. Just a different version of reality compared to what is done with mammals.

So the question was, how do I use the term "purebred chickens?" I use it as a way to determine a person's experience in the hobby. An experienced person will refer to a line as Standard bred. An inexperienced person will typically refer to a line as purebred. They're trying to mean the same thing, even though it's not the same thing. When someone refers to purebred poultry I know that they're a little earlier in their breeding career, and I give them a little more mentoring (without a condescending attitude -- the goal is to be helpful, not holier-than-thou). There's nothing wrong with being a beginner. People who are asking are trying to do things right, and they deserve the guidance of experienced breeders. Without that, the hobby of poultry keeping will die out, and even more of our beloved Standard bred birds will become extinct.

 

[Painted Calls]

I think in the chicken world, it is purely up to 2 things. 1 being someone's opinion, and 2 being how closely the bird fits the breed SOP.

It does make for confusing determination of what is "purebred" and what is not. I think seeing the place of origin and how birds are kept and bred also help determine it. It's really a big gray area as there are no papers to prove lineage.

In the mammal world, "purebred" is overused and papers are abused. I've seen both registered dogs and horses that are conformational train wrecks being bred. The offspring would then technically be "purebred" but it's nothing I want. I've seen grade horses and unregistered dogs fit their breed standard better than some that are papered. Then you also have registries like CKC or PtHA that will accept anything if you give them money.

I personally don't call any mammal purebred unless lineage can be proven. With chickens, if they fit the SOP or only have a few qualities that are off, I would call them the claimed breed. I don't ever use "purebred" in reference to chickens. I use the breed name or I will say "mixed".