What in the world??? I thought they were professional horse trainers!!

[geebs]

It was an unattractive video however...we as readers have no working knowledge of what she was doing.. I didnt' see anything particularly cruel here... She taps the horse on the face with bent fingers She is trying to get him off the top of her.. Is he in fact a blind horse that needs to be on top of someone.. Is he a dangerous OTTB? We just don't know... What other methods did she try that failed?? We don't know that either... I think it is cruel to take a person (anyone) apart that isn't here to defend themselves.. I saw nothing worth writing home to mom about... The horse outwieghs her by a mighty bit.... The horse has spacial issues... Very green or bossy... I personally would have switched methods but she got the job done... The horse learned to back off when the rope was jiggled and that is what the goal would appear to be.

This is a natural trainer near me.. I find this much more cruel and noteworthy

 

[welsummerchicks]

No insult to cowboys at all. I evidently didn't say it clear enough.

It's because the celebrity trainers PRESENT themselves as 'cowboys' (or native americans, or whatever) that inexperienced people swallow whatever they say. That's because people have that adoration factor.

Remember, Pat Parelli has spent YEARS hitting horses in the head with ropes and sticks, to nods of adoring fans. Why? Because of the speech that goes with it, and the aura. The mustache, the chaps, the whole picture. Marketing.

What does that say about REAL cowboys and REAL native americans handling horses?

Absolutely nothing. It's about aura, not about reality. It's about marketing and having a big speech that sounds profound.

I've worked with a few cowboys, pre-'natural horsemanship' fads. More 'Monty Foreman' type era.

Just good solid horse trainers, doing their job after years of experience, failures and successes, and listening to much older, more experienced trainers.

No, they aren't all like that. I've met a few like that. And I'm sure there are a few out there still. But they were about observing, practicing, and listening to more experienced people, not about showing, either, but about having a controllable, pleasant, fun horse to ride.

A good horse trainer looks like he is doing very, very little. The horses don't fight with them as much, not because they're brutal and the horses are cowed, but because the horse understands what the guy wants him to do.

They also weren't about trying to make all riding styles the same. The celebrity trainers try to make all riding styles the same, so they can get more customers. They aren't the same. Different goals, methods, breeds, riding style, bits, saddles.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Quote:
Very true. How many gush over GaWaNi PonyBoy because of his exotic copper skin and glossy black hair? I've read his book and his methods are just a combo of Lyons, Parelli and Roberts.

I also recall reading somewhere (I think it was Cherry Hill) that said that these types rely on PHYSICAL cues because they are constantly talking to the audience and the horse has difficulty discerning yammering about his videos, carrot sticks, self-brag versus a verbal command.

 

[EweSheep]

I do not like Parelli.......enuff said! My college instructor thought he was COOL but I said NOT!

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Insofar as he has methods at all

I went to see him at an expo once, probably ten-plus years ago now, with some horsey friends who we all pretty much knew we were not going to see *horsemanship* but he DOES look pretty good with his shirt off. I don't know as I've honestly met anyone (tho there is probably *someone* out there) who goes to see him, or buys his book, for anything but um aesthetics. I expect he knows this since in the expo session we saw there was next to no attempt made to actually work with horses

But you know, in a backwards sort of way I kind of respect him more for knowing his niche and abilities and not overreaching them, than some of these equally-famous dudes who are always out to try to prove something even when circumstances do not permit it to be done right.

Pat, never averse to listening to well-shaped half-naked men prattle on about whatever they want

 

[welsummerchicks]

I don't agree on two points:

1. he's not at all good to look at any more.

2. overstepping his bounds. I see it differently, I think that's his biggest problem aside from doing all sorts of unsafe stuff other people adoringly copy.

On all other counts, unanimous agreement.

As far as Gawani Pony Boy, I think his tan came out of a can, I doubt he has any more native american in him than anyone else(one gal told me he's 'pure New York Chicano', another that the dark skin is because he's Puerto Rican, but I'm not sure either are accurate), and I don't see how that matters anyway. The real trick with these guys is to strip away all the marketing baloney and just see what they do and what the results are.

My two friends claim to have knowledge of his real abilities from a celebrity trail ride they went on. As far as being a combination of other trainers, definitely, but again, I don't think that matters. What matters is results.

As far as these big shot celebrities teaching normal stuff dressed up, I don't find that to be true. I think they are a little too inventive. I think if they taught only normal stuff they'd be a lot more useful.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Heck with him! My husband is 1/4 Blackfoot and the rest German. That way I get a nice looking male who can build level chicken coops!

Thing that gets me about the romanticism of the American Indian horse culture is that they never mention that horses were ridden until they were lame, and then eaten once they went lame. Most tribes didn't spend a lot of time nursing lame horses when there were others in the domestic herd and others on the range.

I can't watch Parelli on RFDTV any more, it's just an extended commercial about his DVDs and carrot sticks and books and level system, etc ...

I still think Clinton Anderson gets an extra $1000 every time he says "Featherlite Trailers" during his trailer loading demos.

 

[welsummerchicks]

What the history books don't say is the cowboys and everyone else in Europe did about the same thing as the Indians. Worked 'em til they were half dead and then ate 'em -

Though in some places - old horses were 'put out to pasture' - basically a death sentence, in a field with dozens of other horses and no grass.

The life of the working horse was rarely pleasant, rarely long, whether a farmer, a cowboy, an Indian was the master.

 

[patandchickens]

I really have no clue what Mr Pony Boy looks like nowadays, I got married 8 years ago and no longer hang out with the type of friends who drag me to expo sessions for the purposes of studying the clinician's conformation. Oh well

Pat

 

[Brody's Broodello]

Quote:
LOL!