What is the difference between Wheaten, Black-breasted Red, .etc.?

[mjjobbins]

I wonder if anyone knows what the differences are between Wheaten, partridge, BBR, and other colors like this that, to my eye, look nearly identical. Is there any? Is is just different names for the same color pattern? If anyone can educate me, I'd be grateful.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

The roosters all look similar but the hens are different. Partridge hens are a red columbian (red with black tail and hackle that have red lacing) and the rest of the feathers are finely pencilled. Wheaten hens are a light wheat color overall with some black in the tail. Black breasted red hens are brown with a black tail, black hackle laced in gold, and a salmon breast.
Maybe someone can post pics of the different varieties.

 

[mjjobbins]

I think I get it. So, the easiest way to tell is to see what kind of hen you have because the cockerels and roosters don't really look all that different. I'm starting to understand. There must be some sort of catalog of possible color traits for chickens. I think I'll try to find one. Thanks for your imput.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I know that with the dutch bantams originally there were wheaten dutch but they ended up getting crossed with light brown (BBR) and basically disappeared until someone ended up crossing the right birds and had wheaten pop up.

 

[mjjobbins]

I bet that's how a lot of varieties get developed, except, perhaps production lines. But even they probably started with accidental "breeds". Or maybe not?

 

[Kev]

BBR, red ducking and Light Brown refer to the same gene/color pattern.

Wheaten is another gene.

Partridge is a confusing one as it is very inconsistently used and it appears the term is used for different color/pattern in other countries. Have seen it used for Pencilled or birds with a recessive gene that looks similar to BBR but darker.. and sometimes even see it applied to true BBR type birds.....

Another way to tell is by what sort of chick down pattern the rooster had as a chick. BBR have the classic, sharp chimpunk pattern. Wheatens come out either solid cream or cream with a single stripe that can either be restricted to the middle of head/back of neck or it can extend in the middle across the back. The recessive gene variety look similar to BBR chicks except the stripe pattern is different.(btw this recessive variety also tends to be 'darker' as adults)

Monkey, it sounds like you were referring to the "Pencilled".. not real familiar with this pattern but they likely don't have columbian as the roosters still have colored bodies.. If this is correct, then pencilleds have several genes that alter the feather patterning on the body to form the pencilling pattern.

 

[mjjobbins]

So, Wheaten or BBR can only be known by the phenotype of the hen but is not discernable in the males?

 

[Kev]

Yes. And by the chick down phenotype, if known for the males. If you know a particular black breasted phenotype rooster had sharp clean chimpunk down pattern as a chick you know he is a BBR.. cream with single stripe or none- Wheaten.

Sometimes it is mentioned that a BBR roosters have white down at the base of feathers, sooty colored on wheatens. Sometimes other unrelated genes can alter the down color so it's not always foolproof & not everybody agrees on that.

 

[mjjobbins]

Great. that actually clears things up quite a bit for me. I'm determined to get some Wheaten Ameraucanas and I already have a Blue wheaten cockerel. When trying to figure out the possibilities for a flock with both blue wheaten and wheaten, I realized that I didn't really know that much. Your reply has been very informative, though. Thanks somuch for the help. if you dont mind, how does one get to know about these things? Is it mainly an experience and word-of-mouth thing or are there some books that I should be reading?

 

[Kev]

Blue wheatens! We had games when I was a kid, a lot of them were blue wheaten. Thought they were the prettiest chickens.

The blue follows the same pattern as the oft-mentioned "black-blue-splash" except for wheatens it's the same just "wheaten-blue wheaten-splash wheaten". So if you bred the blue wheaten roo with normal wheaten hens, you'd get half blue wheatens and half normal wheatens..

For pure wheatens you probably want to read up on what the standard calls for the hens to look like (I'm guessing very clean and clear bodies) and go from there.

BTW Wheaten is dominant over BBR however not always completely dominant so the cross hens frequently show tell tale signs of the hidden recessive BBR gene leaking through, such as too much 'patterning' over the bodies and/or black tipping on the body feathers. Just a helpful hint.. and also another way to find out if a rooster is a Wheaten or not, by looking at the daughters out of wheaten hens.

I never got any books so for me it's been word of mouth and primarily internet plus hands on experience. An excellent forum for 'more serious' genetics discussion is the Coop. Here's a link to the Coop's Genetics Forum Check out their Helpful Links for links to some good genetics links. KazJaps' site is truly excellent- has pictures too!

Henk also made a huge site with genetics calculator for many species.

Tim Adkerson comes here too, but only sporadically it seems. When he posts, I sit quiet and listen. He knows this stuff plus way much more. He's working on a genetics book also.. certainly will be a bonus for us poultry hobbyists.