What is this bulge under a curved beak

[16 and me]

Hi all, hoping someone knows what this is. Winnie is about 5 weeks old, and has this curved upper beak. I noticed when I went to trim it this bulge under the beak. Does anyone with experience know if this is an injury from the beak itself, or a birth defect or a tumor or something? I gave her the 1st beak trimming and got it right to the quick, so I'll have to wait a few weeks I guess before I can take it back any further. I am concerned though about that bulge. Any help.is greatly appreciated!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Can you get some more photos, it's a bit fuzzy and dark.

What does the lump feel like?

If you look inside the beak is there any food stuck under the tongue in pocket?

 

[16 and me]

Thanks for your reply @Wyorp Rock
Her bottom beak is so tiny. I opened her little beak and I cannot see a tongue. The bulge acts like it's her tongue if that makes sense. The skin is soft with a small hard bit when it moves. (It moves in out when I close her beak, like perhaps she's pushing it with her tongue.). Is it possible her tongue is balled up in the pocket?

 

[16 and me]

I have been looking to see if I could find anybody who posted anything like this and I found an old post of something similar on a hen
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...g-something-sticking-out-from-throat.1198930/

 

[rosemarythyme]

Yes it could be the tongue slipping back there, I've seen a few photos on here of similar issues before and it turned out to be the tongue somehow slipping behind the beak. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark any of those threads so I don't know if anything can be done about it...

 

[16 and me]

Yes it could be the tongue slipping back there, I've seen a few photos on here of similar issues before and it turned out to be the tongue somehow slipping behind the beak. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark any of those threads so I don't know if anything can be done about it...

Thank you. I'm confident that's what's happened. The more I've researched about underformed lower beaks, I see that if it's too small the tongue has nowhere to lay so it can curl downwards or spiral and do exactly that. I'm not open to surgery, but I'll keep looking into possible solitions until the weekend, but she may have to be culled. She's by far the smallest of this brood of 5, behind in her feathering out too. I've never had to cull such a tiny young chick, I've always used broomstick method on bigger cockerels and adult birds.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Thank you. I'm confident that's what's happened. The more I've researched about underformed lower beaks, I see that if it's too small the tongue has nowhere to lay so it can curl downwards or spiral and do exactly that. I'm not open to surgery, but I'll keep looking into possible solitions until the weekend, but she may have to be culled. She's by far the smallest of this brood of 5, behind in her feathering out too. I've never had to cull such a tiny young chick, I've always used broomstick method on bigger cockerels and adult birds.

She may be having difficulty eating which would explain why she's runty, which would make sense - her tongue isn't helping with getting food down and might just be getting in the way.

With chicks the easiest way to cull is probably just cutting the head off with sharp shears (you can do it inside a paper bag so you don't have to look), or cervical dislocation can be done by hand (by holding body with one hand and using the other hand to make the "pop" to snap the spinal cord) though I haven't tried it myself on a chick.

 

[LaFleche]

Thank you. I'm confident that's what's happened. The more I've researched about underformed lower beaks, I see that if it's too small the tongue has nowhere to lay so it can curl downwards or spiral and do exactly that. I'm not open to surgery, but I'll keep looking into possible solitions until the weekend, but she may have to be culled. She's by far the smallest of this brood of 5, behind in her feathering out too. I've never had to cull such a tiny young chick, I've always used broomstick method on bigger cockerels and adult birds.

Usually, chicks presenting with similar birth defects, also suffer from other internal abnormalities leading to wasting away and death.

As there is nothing one can do about it, in my view it is the merciful thing to spare them the misery and cull.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thanks for your reply @Wyorp Rock
Her bottom beak is so tiny. I opened her little beak and I cannot see a tongue. The bulge acts like it's her tongue if that makes sense. The skin is soft with a small hard bit when it moves. (It moves in out when I close her beak, like perhaps she's pushing it with her tongue.). Is it possible her tongue is balled up in the pocket?
View attachment 4044312

Thank you. I'm confident that's what's happened. The more I've researched about underformed lower beaks, I see that if it's too small the tongue has nowhere to lay so it can curl downwards or spiral and do exactly that. I'm not open to surgery, but I'll keep looking into possible solitions until the weekend, but she may have to be culled. She's by far the smallest of this brood of 5, behind in her feathering out too. I've never had to cull such a tiny young chick, I've always used broomstick method on bigger cockerels and adult birds.

I think you are probably right, that it's her tongue.

I'm so sorry that she's not thriving. As mentioned, sometimes with these issues they continue to fail and don't make it.