What Rabbits Do You Have? Show Off Your Rabbits Here!

[PrimroseMom1]

Netherland Dwarfs 7 weeks old.
Chocolate Otter

Otter. There are 3 of these.

Chocolate and Black

If I'm seeing right 4 does and 2 bucks.

Your bunnies are absolutely beautiful!!

 

[Bunnylady]

@chickadee5002 With that many new buns, who wouldn't be excited about showing them off? They look marvelous - congrats! (BTW, Stormy is a Gold-tipped Steel, in case you were wondering)

@Lynzi777

Orange, tort, and torted otter are all the result of a rabbit having two copies of the non-extension gene(ee). The main difference is what they have in the A series. If the rabbit has an Agouti gene (A), it will be an orange. If it has two copies of the self gene (aa), it's a tort. Two copies of the tan gene (atat) or one of tan and one of self (ata) gives you a tan-patterned rabbit; in this case, a torted otter. So you see, you can't have a "torted orange."

The non-extension gene works by pushing the dark pigment (eumelanin) off the hair shaft, allowing only a relatively small amount of it to remain. In an animal that would have a whole lot of the dark pigment (a self-patterned animal) that allows a fair amount of the yellow/red pigment (pheomelanin) to show through on the body hairs, but areas where the hair is shorter and the color more concentrated, the remaining dark color kind of covers it up. On an Agouti-patterned animal, you get a large band of yellow/red pigment on the body hairs, with just a bit of dark pigment left on the tip of the hairs.

In a breed like the Netherland Dwarf, a red rabbit has a red belly, too. That is caused by the wide band gene (w), which also reduces the amount of dark pigment on the hair. Combine wide band and non-extension, and almost all of the dark pigment is removed from the coat. There are also a few helper genes called rufous modifiers that ramp up the amount of red/yellow pigment to get that deep, dark red color. Red Mini Rexes have deep red body color, but white or cream bellies. They have non-extension and rufous, but not the wide band, so they still have a bit of dark pigment on the tips of their hairs. Good red Mini Rex have chocolate genes; since brown isn't that far from deep red/orange, you don't see the dark tips. Sometimes you get red Mini Rex with black genes, not chocolate, and the black tips are very obvious (that is often called "smutty" or "sooty").

I think that is what is going on with the bun whose color you aren't sure about. It looks like an orange to me, but there is a bit of dark pigment on the tips of the body hairs, making it a sooty or smutty orange.

 

[Lynzi777]

@chickadee5002 With that many new buns, who wouldn't be excited about showing them off? They look marvelous - congrats! (BTW, Stormy is a Gold-tipped Steel, in case you were wondering)

@Lynzi777

Orange, tort, and torted otter are all the result of a rabbit having two copies of the non-extension gene(ee). The main difference is what they have in the A series. If the rabbit has an Agouti gene (A), it will be an orange. If it has two copies of the self gene (aa), it's a tort. Two copies of the tan gene (atat) or one of tan and one of self (ata) gives you a tan-patterned rabbit; in this case, a torted otter. So you see, you can't have a "torted orange."

The non-extension gene works by pushing the dark pigment (eumelanin) off the hair shaft, allowing only a relatively small amount of it to remain. In an animal that would have a whole lot of the dark pigment (a self-patterned animal) that allows a fair amount of the yellow/red pigment (pheomelanin) to show through on the body hairs, but areas where the hair is shorter and the color more concentrated, the remaining dark color kind of covers it up. On an Agouti-patterned animal, you get a large band of yellow/red pigment on the body hairs, with just a bit of dark pigment left on the tip of the hairs.

In a breed like the Netherland Dwarf, a red rabbit has a red belly, too. That is caused by the wide band gene (w), which also reduces the amount of dark pigment on the hair. Combine wide band and non-extension, and almost all of the dark pigment is removed from the coat. There are also a few helper genes called rufous modifiers that ramp up the amount of red/yellow pigment to get that deep, dark red color. Red Mini Rexes have deep red body color, but white or cream bellies. They have non-extension and rufous, but not the wide band, so they still have a bit of dark pigment on the tips of their hairs. Good red Mini Rex have chocolate genes; since brown isn't that far from deep red/orange, you don't see the dark tips. Sometimes you get red Mini Rex with black genes, not chocolate, and the black tips are very obvious (that is often called "smutty" or "sooty").

I think that is what is going on with the bun whose color you aren't sure about. It looks like an orange to me, but there is a bit of dark pigment on the tips of the body hairs, making it a sooty or smutty orange.

So it sounds like regardless of what color I breed this doe to - I may still end up getting torts and torted otters because she carries two copies ee gene? I'm trying to wrap my brain around these color genetics but I was never good in science.

My brain is like mush now. LOL And what if I were to hang onto this little orange one? Would she throw similar colors? (I say "she" but I'm speaking theoretically as I don't really know what it is yet.)

 

[kacklinkelly]

Hello everyone! I just wanted to share my first New Zealand rabbits I picked up yesterday!

This is Lyta my white Doe

Stormy my Agouti Doe

Honey my red Junior Doe

Punkin' my red Junior Doe

Dotty my Broken Black Junior Doe

Cookie my Broken Black Junior Doe

Olaf my White Buck

Ramses my Black Buck



Sorry for all the pics

just had to show them off!

Wow, your rabbitry is spotless!

 

[ChirpChickens]

Wow, your rabbitry is spotless!

honestly, I was thinking the same thing!

 

[Double Kindness]

What color is Grace? Agouti? This is a lot of information!

 

[chickadee5002]

They are very nice. I loved seeing your fotos. Never too many fotos!!

Thank you!

@chickadee5002 With that many new buns, who wouldn't be excited about showing them off? They look marvelous - congrats! (BTW, Stormy is a Gold-tipped Steel, in case you were wondering)

@Lynzi777

Orange, tort, and torted otter are all the result of a rabbit having two copies of the non-extension gene(ee). The main difference is what they have in the A series. If the rabbit has an Agouti gene (A), it will be an orange. If it has two copies of the self gene (aa), it's a tort. Two copies of the tan gene (atat) or one of tan and one of self (ata) gives you a tan-patterned rabbit; in this case, a torted otter. So you see, you can't have a "torted orange."

The non-extension gene works by pushing the dark pigment (eumelanin) off the hair shaft, allowing only a relatively small amount of it to remain. In an animal that would have a whole lot of the dark pigment (a self-patterned animal) that allows a fair amount of the yellow/red pigment (pheomelanin) to show through on the body hairs, but areas where the hair is shorter and the color more concentrated, the remaining dark color kind of covers it up. On an Agouti-patterned animal, you get a large band of yellow/red pigment on the body hairs, with just a bit of dark pigment left on the tip of the hairs.

In a breed like the Netherland Dwarf, a red rabbit has a red belly, too. That is caused by the wide band gene (w), which also reduces the amount of dark pigment on the hair. Combine wide band and non-extension, and almost all of the dark pigment is removed from the coat. There are also a few helper genes called rufous modifiers that ramp up the amount of red/yellow pigment to get that deep, dark red color. Red Mini Rexes have deep red body color, but white or cream bellies. They have non-extension and rufous, but not the wide band, so they still have a bit of dark pigment on the tips of their hairs. Good red Mini Rex have chocolate genes; since brown isn't that far from deep red/orange, you don't see the dark tips. Sometimes you get red Mini Rex with black genes, not chocolate, and the black tips are very obvious (that is often called "smutty" or "sooty").

I think that is what is going on with the bun whose color you aren't sure about. It looks like an orange to me, but there is a bit of dark pigment on the tips of the body hairs, making it a sooty or smutty orange.

Thank you BunnyLady!

Wow, your rabbitry is spotless!

lol that is because I just built them and just got my buns sunday!

honestly, I was thinking the same thing!

It wont be this way to much longer! lol

 

[Bunnylady]

So it sounds like regardless of what color I breed this doe to - I may still end up getting torts and torted otters because she carries two copies ee gene? I'm trying to wrap my brain around these color genetics but I was never good in science.

My brain is like mush now. LOL And what if I were to hang onto this little orange one? Would she throw similar colors? (I say "she" but I'm speaking theoretically as I don't really know what it is yet.)

The non-extension gene is recessive; the only way a rabbit can be a non-extension color (orange, tort, sable point, frosty) is if it has two copies of the non-extension gene. Such rabbits will give a non-extension gene to their offspring, since that is the only type of gene they have in the E series. Whether the babies are non-extension colors depends on what the other parent has. Breed two rabbits that are non-extension colors together (a tort to an orange, for example), and all of the babies will be non-extension colors (with the possible exception of both parents carrying REW, in which case, a possible REW baby would still have two non-extension genes, you just wouldn't be able to see it).

If you breed to a rabbit that isn't a non-extension color (for example, chestnut), that rabbit clearly has at least one gene in the E series that isn't the non-extension gene (a chestnut rabbit has at least one copy of the dominant full-color gene, E). Just looking at it, you can't tell if it has two copies of the full-color gene (EE) or maybe one for full color, and one for non-extension (Ee). If you look at its pedigree and see that one of its parents was, say, a tort, you know that it must have a non-extension gene, since that was the only thing that tort parent could have given it. So if you breed that particular chestnut to a rabbit that is a non-extension color (say, a sable point) and you can expect that some of the babies will be non-extension colors.

It works the other way, too. If you have a full-color rabbit and you breed it to a non-extension rabbit and you get non-extension babies, you know that full-colored rabbit must be carrying non-extension, since any non-extension offspring had to get that gene from both of the parents. If you breed two blacks together and you get even a single tort baby, you know both of the blacks are carrying non-extension.

On the other hand, if you have a black rabbit and the pedigree that came with it says that one parent was a torted otter and the other a frosty, you know that someone either has messed up their pedigrees or they don't know what to call their colors, since two non-extension rabbits can't have full-color babies!

If your orange baby is good type, you might hang on to it (type should be at least as important as color, IMO); it should actually broaden your possible color range. I believe you said the mother of this litter was a torted otter; since she had tort (aa) and torted otter babies, you know she has a tan and a self gene in the A series (ata). Orange is an agouti color; the gene that caused that (the agouti gene, A) had to come from the buck, since agouti is dominant to both the tan gene (at) and the self gene (a). Breeding the orange baby would give you the possibility of agouti colors in addition to the self and tan.

Just to see if you have been able to follow this - the doe is a torted otter, she had self, tan and agouti patterned babies in this litter. Because of that, we know that the doe has a tan and a self gene in the A series; can you tell me what the buck has?

 

[Lynzi777]

The non-extension gene is recessive; the only way a rabbit can be a non-extension color (orange, tort, sable point, frosty) is if it has two copies of the non-extension gene. Such rabbits will give a non-extension gene to their offspring, since that is the only type of gene they have in the E series. Whether the babies are non-extension colors depends on what the other parent has. Breed two rabbits that are non-extension colors together (a tort to an orange, for example), and all of the babies will be non-extension colors (with the possible exception of both parents carrying REW, in which case, a possible REW baby would still have two non-extension genes, you just wouldn't be able to see it).

If you breed to a rabbit that isn't a non-extension color (for example, chestnut), that rabbit clearly has at least one gene in the E series that isn't the non-extension gene (a chestnut rabbit has at least one copy of the dominant full-color gene, E). Just looking at it, you can't tell if it has two copies of the full-color gene (EE) or maybe one for full color, and one for non-extension (Ee). If you look at its pedigree and see that one of its parents was, say, a tort, you know that it must have a non-extension gene, since that was the only thing that tort parent could have given it. So if you breed that particular chestnut to a rabbit that is a non-extension color (say, a sable point) and you can expect that some of the babies will be non-extension colors.

It works the other way, too. If you have a full-color rabbit and you breed it to a non-extension rabbit and you get non-extension babies, you know that full-colored rabbit must be carrying non-extension, since any non-extension offspring had to get that gene from both of the parents. If you breed two blacks together and you get even a single tort baby, you know both of the blacks are carrying non-extension.

On the other hand, if you have a black rabbit and the pedigree that came with it says that one parent was a torted otter and the other a frosty, you know that someone either has messed up their pedigrees or they don't know what to call their colors, since two non-extension rabbits can't have full-color babies!

If your orange baby is good type, you might hang on to it (type should be at least as important as color, IMO); it should actually broaden your possible color range. I believe you said the mother of this litter was a torted otter; since she had tort (aa) and torted otter babies, you know she has a tan and a self gene in the A series (ata). Orange is an agouti color; the gene that caused that (the agouti gene, A) had to come from the buck, since agouti is dominant to both the tan gene (at) and the self gene (a). Breeding the orange baby would give you the possibility of agouti colors in addition to the self and tan.

Just to see if you have been able to follow this - the doe is a torted otter, she had self, tan and agouti patterned babies in this litter. Because of that, we know that the doe has a tan and a self gene in the A series; can you tell me what the buck has? - I'm still trying to figure the other half of this part out! LOL

Ok give me a minute because my head is again dizzy so I'm reading this over taking notes now, making myself some kind of chart here so I can try to follow what you're saying. But Ijust read something you mentioned and it made a light bulb go off in my head. Now I bred this doe to the "sable point" as he was sold to me, but after sending you some pictures you mentioned he looked more like a frosty point. So lets just say he was sable point, if I'm following you correctly, and Orange, Tort and Torted Otter are the result of the Non-Extension (ee) gene, then the buck must have had a copy of this gene as well and now they all have 2 copies of this gene?

 

[RedRidge]

I love genetics. I am delving into torts only because I unexpectedly got one in my last litter. I bred 2 NZR who were both out of red parents but each had a black NZ grandparent. I just love this little tort so am going to keep him to breed back to his mom. Being an AmChin breeder I'm not normally into color but sometimes certain ones just catch your eye. ;-)