What to feed hen with gout?

[theoldchick]

https://vetericyn.com/blog/signs-an...cases of bumblefoot,to remove the dead tissue.

 

[Eggcessive]

Is the bulbous red area hard like bone or soft? I can’t see the toes that well, but it does look knobby as gout would affect toes. There also looks to be scaly leg mites, so smothering the scales with vaseline may be helpful for those. If a vet is a possibility, they might help with diagnosis. Mycoplasma synovitis or other bacterial or viral joint infections can cause more systemic symptoms, and since she seems sick, that might be something to rule out. Do you see any scabs on the foot pads that might be bumblefoot? If the red bulbous area is soft, that could be bumblefoot. But gout or MS would be hard, I think.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Her symptoms are: drinking constantly, watery poops, some vomiting, weight loss, a little unsteady on her feet, slightly tired, having trouble staying warm. Her sores are warm to the touch, but she doesn't react as though it hurts to touch them. Her nails are also overgrown, as you'll see in the pictures. I'm trying to get my hands on nail clippers.

You'll see she's outside on wood chips - I kept her inside all day yesterday, and by the end of the day she was frantically trying to get back outside. Given her condition, I decided it's best to let her have at least some time outside each day. She does act as though it hurts to walk on that sharp ground. I'm trying to find booties for her to provide some padding, since I don't think wrapping her feet will go well over those sores.

Drinking constantly, some vomiting...check to make sure her crop is emptying overnight.
I realize your posting about her feet, but with an older bird sometimes there can be more than one issue that needs to be addressed.
If possible, get a fecal float to see if worms are contributing to the weight loss as well.

I agree, it does look like she may have some SLM going on too. It wouldn't hurt to rub some vaseline into and under the scales of the legs and feet.

Being frantic to be back outside - I would let her be outside. A frantic and separated bird is a stressed bird. Stress can further cause a decline in condition. If she's having trouble staying warm(?) then provide her with some deep straw in a protected area of the run or coop that she can take advantage of and snuggle down.

 

[sarahbobo]

Is the bulbous red area hard like bone or soft? I can’t see the toes that well, but it does look knobby as gout would affect toes. There also looks to be scaly leg mites, so smothering the scales with vaseline may be helpful for those. If a vet is a possibility, they might help with diagnosis. Mycoplasma synovitis or other bacterial or viral joint infections can cause more systemic symptoms, and since she seems sick, that might be something to rule out. Do you see any scabs on the foot pads that might be bumblefoot? If the red bulbous area is soft, that could be bumblefoot. But gout or MS would be hard, I think.

The bulbous red area is soft. I thought it would be hard if it was bumblefoot, but apparently not, ugh. Yes, the toes are swollen the way they tend to be with gout, from what I've seen. I'm afraid she might have both - I'm hoping to get her into my vet today, since she's losing weight so quickly. We're supposed to get the results on kidney function back today. How would a vet test for MS or other systemic infections? I'm hoping to test for worms, too. Fleur had some kind of respiratory infection last winter, with eye bubbles being the most distinctive symptom. We gave her antibiotics and that seemed to clear the problem, but again, she's seemed...slightly unwell most of her life generally more tired than the others, seeming to have trouble swallowing some treats like leafy greens, giving up on treats quicker. She's at the bottom of the pecking order, being a sweet laid back girl, so she gets chased away from treats and sometimes gives up on them. I try to get her treats away from the higher up chickens. She's always drunk a lot, too. Oh, and I agree about SLM - I've thought for a while some of my girls had them, but my vet said she didn't think so, so I haven't treated them. I'll go ahead and do that today. Thank you so much.

 

[sarahbobo]

Drinking constantly, some vomiting...check to make sure her crop is emptying overnight.
I realize your posting about her feet, but with an older bird sometimes there can be more than one issue that needs to be addressed.
If possible, get a fecal float to see if worms are contributing to the weight loss as well.

I agree, it does look like she may have some SLM going on too. It wouldn't hurt to rub some vaseline into and under the scales of the legs and feet.

Being frantic to be back outside - I would let her be outside. A frantic and separated bird is a stressed bird. Stress can further cause a decline in condition. If she's having trouble staying warm(?) then provide her with some deep straw in a protected area of the run or coop that she can take advantage of and snuggle down.

Oh, wish I'd seen this first thing this morning! Thank you for your reply. She's already been eating and drinking a lot today, I'll check her crop tomorrow morning. Do you have any ideas on what might be causing her crop to empty slowly?

I'm going to try to get her into my vet ASAP to test for worms and see if her foot sores are bumblefoot. I would love it if she only had bumblefoot + worms and not gout, but her toes very much look like gout we'll see I suppose. Given her history I wouldn't be surprised if she has some kind of viral infection. She's always been a bit more tired than her sisters, drunk more water, given up on treats faster, gotten cold more easily.

I agree about letting her outside. She spent most of the day yesterday outside, and I brought her in again for the night. She's been free ranging in an area of the yard separate from the others, but where they can interact through the fence, so she gets to be near them but they can't chase her. I'm wondering if I should wrap her feet before letting her outside, but I'm worried about pressing on those sores...

Given how cold she seems in the evenings and mornings, I think it's probably best to keep her inside overnight, especially because then she has easy access to food and water without the others harassing her. Plus, I think getting in and out of the coop is especially hard on her feet, and she refuses to sleep anywhere else.

 

[sarahbobo]

https://vetericyn.com/blog/signs-and-symptoms-of-bumblefoot-in-chickens/#:~:text=For mild cases of bumblefoot,to remove the dead tissue.

Thank you for the resource. I have another hen who's had bumblefoot twice, so I'm familiar with it, but she's only had the kind with black masses in her foot pads, so I'm new to these soft red sores on the tops of the feet. I'm hoping my vet can perform the surgery to remove the dead tissue and infection, if necessary.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Not sure what your feed availability is, but sometimes you can find "maintenance" feeds which are around 14-15% protein and only 1% calcium in a feed store (as opposed to a Rural King/Farm King/Tractor Supply type store).

I've done a lot of reading on feed programs, and various potential causes for gout, etc related to dietary failures, but they are all focused on MUCH younger birds. Very old birds have no commercial value, there is little (none) study done, and no good scientific, as opposed to anecdotal, information. Meaning most vets won't have any knowledge from their schooling either - assuming they did a poultry rotation at all. Old chickens as pets is, in terms of animal husbandry, a very new practice. There's just not much good, tested, reliable info out there.

@Eggcessive and @Wyorp Rock have tremendous, admittedly anecdotal, experience. Their assistance on these forums means they've seen more than most vets will in a lifetime. The best advice I can offer from my own studies? Follow their advice - its unlikely you will find greater expertise.

 

[sarahbobo]

Not sure what your feed availability is, but sometimes you can find "maintenance" feeds which are around 14-15% protein and only 1% calcium in a feed store (as opposed to a Rural King/Farm King/Tractor Supply type store).

I've done a lot of reading on feed programs, and various potential causes for gout, etc related to dietary failures, but they are all focused on MUCH younger birds. Very old birds have no commercial value, there is little (none) study done, and no good scientific, as opposed to anecdotal, information. Meaning most vets won't have any knowledge from their schooling either - assuming they did a poultry rotation at all. Old chickens as pets is, in terms of animal husbandry, a very new practice. There's just not much good, tested, reliable info out there.

@Eggcessive and @Wyorp Rock have tremendous, admittedly anecdotal, experience. Their assistance on these forums means they've seen more than most vets will in a lifetime. The best advice I can offer from my own studies? Follow their advice - its unlikely you will find greater expertise.

Oh, thank you, I'll do some looking for maintenance feeds. I did find one that's 17% protein and 1.2% calcium, but lower calcium and protein is always preferable.

Very true....chickens are only valued as products in this society. I hate that fact with a passion. I'm so grateful this community exists to help care for these creatures - it's quickly becoming clear that yall do indeed have a lot more experience and knowledge about chicken health than even my vet, and she's a very good and experienced vet. She's treated other bird species for gout, but never chickens. I will definitely follow yall's advice.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Oh, thank you, I'll do some looking for maintenance feeds. I did find one that's 17% protein and 1.2% calcium, but lower calcium and protein is always preferable.

Very true....chickens are only valued as products in this society. I hate that fact with a passion. I'm so grateful this community exists to help care for these creatures - it's quickly becoming clear that yall do indeed have a lot more experience and knowledge about chicken health than even my vet, and she's a very good and experienced vet. She's treated other bird species for gout, but never chickens. I will definitely follow yall's advice.

I don't see your location in your Profile, but if you want to share a general area, we might be able to recommend something local.

 

[sarahbobo]

I don't see your location in your Profile, but if you want to share a general area, we might be able to recommend something local.

Oh yes, my profile is quite incomplete. I should fix that. I'm in Albuquerque, New Mexico.