What to get?(waterfowl)
- Thread starter toejam
- Start date
Dr. Todd :
Whoa there Boggy Bottoms! Try some deep breathing while I use a calculator try to figure out how $80 to $250 is a 500% increase...
Two main points:
1. If someone likes a particular specie and thinks it's worth what a seller is asking for it, then the price is reasonable to that buyer. If another buyer doesn't like the price, so be it. That buyer goes and looks somewhere else.
2. With fewer and fewer folks keeping waterfowl anymore and even fewer folks successfully breeding waterfowl in numbers, there is an increased demand for all species. This is exacerbated when a species is uncommon and demand peaks (like recently happened in Brazilian teal in the US). When availability increases and demand wanes the price will go down. With the price down, more people buy them, the supply will exceed the demand and many of the 'breeders' sell off the species. Eventually demand increases because the birds become uncommon again and round and round we go.
Let me ask you this: are those selling pygmy geese for $3000. USD (a 1400% increase from 1970's prices) or king eiders for $2500. USD 'ripping people off'? How about Baikal Teal at $400pr (a 100% increase since the 90's)? What makes that ok and the price of something like Brazilian teal not? I will agree with you that $250. is too much for Brazilian at the moment, but I've yet to see the price that high. I see them most commonly at $150 to $200pr, an 87.5-150% increase from your $80.pr price.
Somehow you seem to misinterpret a dissenting opinion as derogatory. I'm simply trying to give these (mostly young) readers another perspective to chew over.
To ToeJam:
There are lots of species that fall into your price range but you'll need to filter the list by your aviary size, current inhabitants, weather in your area, ease of care/breeding, potential for hybridization, etc. etc. etc. There are several helpful books out there that would help you sort all this out, I'd suggest 'Waterfowl: Care, Breeding and Conservation' by S. Tarsnane. I've offered this before to another youth on here, and I'll offer it again, if you don't have a copy and would like one, I'll buy it and send to you. We need more kids like you to succeed with birds.
DT
see that's just what I'm talking about, your very first statement, if you will look, I SAID $50 to $80, well $50 times 5 is $250 thus a 500% increase,
also not sure what birds sell for in Canada but baikal teal have always been $400 here for as long as I can remember, actually many are in the $300 range now as they have become more popular, so here like many of the use to be rare stuff, they are coming down.
Kings at $2500 is a steal, they use to be $10000 went down pretty quick but held fast at $5000 for ever, again not sure what Canadian prices are
Smew for that matter were $1200- $1500 in the 80's and 90's, saw some the other day at $400 with $500 being the average????
Pygmys' also have always been $3000. But with all this we are talking super specialty birds here, not every day run of the mill teal.
If it werent for Arnold Schouten actually going up and collecting all the sea ducks himself, well we wouldnt have any in captivity here in the US, so when you are the only man with specialty arctic sea ducks, yes you can set the price where ever you want. Same with the pygmy's, if it werent for places like Mike and Ali Lubbock at Sylvan Heights, we wouldnt have any of those here either. But 1400% increase, if anything those examples of species state side have fallen in half at minimum.
I do agree with you that each seller has the right to set his or her own prices. After all, they are their birds. There are several sites with brazilian at $250 by the way.
But my point to the whole thing here, is mainly a lot of hatcheries here state side have started listing waterfowl at broker prices, I mean wood ducks at $150- $200, mandarins at $200, mute swans at up to $3000
Just a couple examples.... well the dot com er's are seeing all this, and now doing the same.
MY GOAL by posting what I did is like you too said, to inform the new comer and youth that no that is NOT what those birds are worth, period. American money or Canadian money.
Essentially, call it what you like but they are ripping folks off if they can find someone gullible enough to buy them at those prices.....
I breathe fine, and have no problem with you or your opinions. It's the snippy little comments that always seem to go along with them.
You know where you directed that "some people feel they should be the same price as 20 years ago" thing. You've brought that up several times over the fact that I havent had waterfowl in a few years ever since you signed on. Which has no bearing on what's right or not.
and most recently with the uneducated % comment... that's my only problem here. The post comes off much friendlier with stuff like that just left off.
Whoa there Boggy Bottoms! Try some deep breathing while I use a calculator try to figure out how $80 to $250 is a 500% increase...
Two main points:
1. If someone likes a particular specie and thinks it's worth what a seller is asking for it, then the price is reasonable to that buyer. If another buyer doesn't like the price, so be it. That buyer goes and looks somewhere else.
2. With fewer and fewer folks keeping waterfowl anymore and even fewer folks successfully breeding waterfowl in numbers, there is an increased demand for all species. This is exacerbated when a species is uncommon and demand peaks (like recently happened in Brazilian teal in the US). When availability increases and demand wanes the price will go down. With the price down, more people buy them, the supply will exceed the demand and many of the 'breeders' sell off the species. Eventually demand increases because the birds become uncommon again and round and round we go.
Let me ask you this: are those selling pygmy geese for $3000. USD (a 1400% increase from 1970's prices) or king eiders for $2500. USD 'ripping people off'? How about Baikal Teal at $400pr (a 100% increase since the 90's)? What makes that ok and the price of something like Brazilian teal not? I will agree with you that $250. is too much for Brazilian at the moment, but I've yet to see the price that high. I see them most commonly at $150 to $200pr, an 87.5-150% increase from your $80.pr price.
Somehow you seem to misinterpret a dissenting opinion as derogatory. I'm simply trying to give these (mostly young) readers another perspective to chew over.
To ToeJam:
There are lots of species that fall into your price range but you'll need to filter the list by your aviary size, current inhabitants, weather in your area, ease of care/breeding, potential for hybridization, etc. etc. etc. There are several helpful books out there that would help you sort all this out, I'd suggest 'Waterfowl: Care, Breeding and Conservation' by S. Tarsnane. I've offered this before to another youth on here, and I'll offer it again, if you don't have a copy and would like one, I'll buy it and send to you. We need more kids like you to succeed with birds.
DT
see that's just what I'm talking about, your very first statement, if you will look, I SAID $50 to $80, well $50 times 5 is $250 thus a 500% increase,
also not sure what birds sell for in Canada but baikal teal have always been $400 here for as long as I can remember, actually many are in the $300 range now as they have become more popular, so here like many of the use to be rare stuff, they are coming down.
Kings at $2500 is a steal, they use to be $10000 went down pretty quick but held fast at $5000 for ever, again not sure what Canadian prices are
Smew for that matter were $1200- $1500 in the 80's and 90's, saw some the other day at $400 with $500 being the average????
Pygmys' also have always been $3000. But with all this we are talking super specialty birds here, not every day run of the mill teal.
If it werent for Arnold Schouten actually going up and collecting all the sea ducks himself, well we wouldnt have any in captivity here in the US, so when you are the only man with specialty arctic sea ducks, yes you can set the price where ever you want. Same with the pygmy's, if it werent for places like Mike and Ali Lubbock at Sylvan Heights, we wouldnt have any of those here either. But 1400% increase, if anything those examples of species state side have fallen in half at minimum.
I do agree with you that each seller has the right to set his or her own prices. After all, they are their birds. There are several sites with brazilian at $250 by the way.
But my point to the whole thing here, is mainly a lot of hatcheries here state side have started listing waterfowl at broker prices, I mean wood ducks at $150- $200, mandarins at $200, mute swans at up to $3000
Just a couple examples.... well the dot com er's are seeing all this, and now doing the same.
MY GOAL by posting what I did is like you too said, to inform the new comer and youth that no that is NOT what those birds are worth, period. American money or Canadian money.
Essentially, call it what you like but they are ripping folks off if they can find someone gullible enough to buy them at those prices.....
I breathe fine, and have no problem with you or your opinions. It's the snippy little comments that always seem to go along with them.
You know where you directed that "some people feel they should be the same price as 20 years ago" thing. You've brought that up several times over the fact that I havent had waterfowl in a few years ever since you signed on. Which has no bearing on what's right or not.
and most recently with the uneducated % comment... that's my only problem here. The post comes off much friendlier with stuff like that just left off.
Quote:
THANKS!
THANKS!
Red Head ducks!!
Thats what i want to get!
- Apr 12, 2010
- 283
- 4
- 124
Never can have too much HOTTENTOT TEALS!
Personally, I am amazed that the non domestic ducks are not more than what they generally cost now.
I agree with Dr. Todd and Boggy. Some breeds being wildly overpriced (2x or more) even for non-rare ones and supply and demand can also dictate that.
I'm a perfect example of how the wild prices could remain, although I didn't have my heart set out on a sea duck or something really expensive.
My Hottentots were about 4% of the total cost of my expenses for getting them set up. If someone had said they would cost 96% of the total setup cost, I'd have still bought them.
The few breeders i saw before i bought them were all around $200. A person here or there had them for $400 or $250, but i couldn't find any good recommendations for those and it just so happened that one of the cheapest suppliers was highly recommended by several people in the forum. If there was only one breeder and they were charging $1000 or 2000 or even more for a pair at the time when i wanted to buy them, I wouldn't have blinked because i really wanted them.
Looks like there are even more breeders this year for them than last year which is pretty cool.
P.S. Did i mention my vote was for Hottentots?
Personally, I am amazed that the non domestic ducks are not more than what they generally cost now.
I agree with Dr. Todd and Boggy. Some breeds being wildly overpriced (2x or more) even for non-rare ones and supply and demand can also dictate that.
I'm a perfect example of how the wild prices could remain, although I didn't have my heart set out on a sea duck or something really expensive.
My Hottentots were about 4% of the total cost of my expenses for getting them set up. If someone had said they would cost 96% of the total setup cost, I'd have still bought them.
The few breeders i saw before i bought them were all around $200. A person here or there had them for $400 or $250, but i couldn't find any good recommendations for those and it just so happened that one of the cheapest suppliers was highly recommended by several people in the forum. If there was only one breeder and they were charging $1000 or 2000 or even more for a pair at the time when i wanted to buy them, I wouldn't have blinked because i really wanted them.
Looks like there are even more breeders this year for them than last year which is pretty cool.
P.S. Did i mention my vote was for Hottentots?
Quote:
Yep, I agree Big Dreamer.
Red heads and all the "pochard" style divers are very nice and well within the given price range of the OP.
They are great community birds as well, and for divers are some of the easiest to care for.
But they do require the Fed Permit, which the OP didnt want.
a easy fix to that would be the Red crested pochards, very similar and do not require the permits on a Federal level.
Yes as hottentot pointed out, what was you liked? hottentots, LOL.. they are very good species as well. They'd be on the upper end of your range, as they mentioned, $200ish, several breeders still have them down around $150 if you look around. They were always one of my favorite teal. Not real flashy like many of them are, but Lord how can you not like a duck that can fit in the palm of your hand!! That being said, if you do go with them, or any of the smaller teal, be sure to use 1" mesh wire or smaller as they will walk right threw 2 " mesh. They are much more delicate to rear and get to breed though than many of the others such as ringed, marbled, chestnut breasted, caped a lot of the other teal.
Good thing with most all non native teal though, most of them dont have an eclipse plumage, meaning they stay in color year round, pretty much all of them that do not require the Fed permit do, which was always a big plus for me too. Nice to see full color birds year round.
I also really loved the tree ducks, in your range and with no permit would be white faced, eyton's , wandering, javan. The latter two are hard to find, but they are out there.
The javan are like the hottentot of the treeduck world, very small in comparison to the other whistlers, and quite colorful, and all treeducks do stay in color year round as well as are identically colored between the sexes, so you have 2 beautiful birds per pair instead of the normal pretty male, brown hen deal.
Chiloe widgeon also fall into both those categories as well.
Yep, I agree Big Dreamer.
Red heads and all the "pochard" style divers are very nice and well within the given price range of the OP.
They are great community birds as well, and for divers are some of the easiest to care for.
But they do require the Fed Permit, which the OP didnt want.
a easy fix to that would be the Red crested pochards, very similar and do not require the permits on a Federal level.
Yes as hottentot pointed out, what was you liked? hottentots, LOL.. they are very good species as well. They'd be on the upper end of your range, as they mentioned, $200ish, several breeders still have them down around $150 if you look around. They were always one of my favorite teal. Not real flashy like many of them are, but Lord how can you not like a duck that can fit in the palm of your hand!! That being said, if you do go with them, or any of the smaller teal, be sure to use 1" mesh wire or smaller as they will walk right threw 2 " mesh. They are much more delicate to rear and get to breed though than many of the others such as ringed, marbled, chestnut breasted, caped a lot of the other teal.
Good thing with most all non native teal though, most of them dont have an eclipse plumage, meaning they stay in color year round, pretty much all of them that do not require the Fed permit do, which was always a big plus for me too. Nice to see full color birds year round.
I also really loved the tree ducks, in your range and with no permit would be white faced, eyton's , wandering, javan. The latter two are hard to find, but they are out there.
The javan are like the hottentot of the treeduck world, very small in comparison to the other whistlers, and quite colorful, and all treeducks do stay in color year round as well as are identically colored between the sexes, so you have 2 beautiful birds per pair instead of the normal pretty male, brown hen deal.
Chiloe widgeon also fall into both those categories as well.
- Thread starter
- #17
I ment to reply sooner but was at grandparents, and had no wifi.
I forgot about red crested Pochards, and from what I've read they are under $100. I love tree ducks too, specially white faced. I thought eyetons needed a permit, but now that. Know they don't, I can add them to my list. But aren't eyetons sorta aggressive in a mixed pen?On Javan whistling ducks, about how much do they run? Same for wandering tree ducks. I'm Also thinking about sharpwing teal. Chiloes are cool.
I do like the Hottentot teal, but they are too small for my pen. I also love the redheads, but thry need a permit to sell.
I forgot about red crested Pochards, and from what I've read they are under $100. I love tree ducks too, specially white faced. I thought eyetons needed a permit, but now that. Know they don't, I can add them to my list. But aren't eyetons sorta aggressive in a mixed pen?On Javan whistling ducks, about how much do they run? Same for wandering tree ducks. I'm Also thinking about sharpwing teal. Chiloes are cool.
I do like the Hottentot teal, but they are too small for my pen. I also love the redheads, but thry need a permit to sell.
nope they are all good permit wise. The only tree ducks needing one are fulvous, black belly and cuban any more. White face were on it til a few years ago, then someone finally realised they were an African bird and took them off the North American list.
you should be able to pick up some red crested for about $60- $80
eyton's arent agressive at all, cubans are mean as can be, usually in the $150- $175 range on the eyton's
Javan are pretty rare any more, run about $200
wandering, are even rarer but can be found from $100- $175 price ranges a bit just because no one hardly has them any more
sharpwing are nice too they and chilean are very similar and both run about $125
chiloes you'll love and should be easy to find in the $80- $100 tops range
you should be able to pick up some red crested for about $60- $80
eyton's arent agressive at all, cubans are mean as can be, usually in the $150- $175 range on the eyton's
Javan are pretty rare any more, run about $200
wandering, are even rarer but can be found from $100- $175 price ranges a bit just because no one hardly has them any more
sharpwing are nice too they and chilean are very similar and both run about $125
chiloes you'll love and should be easy to find in the $80- $100 tops range
Can someone point out the differences between the sharpwing and chilean teal please?
honestly, their aint none to amount to much.
Some consider them the same species, which to an extent they are, they are just different subspecies of the same bird. There are 4 in their subspecies group I believe actually. The Andean teal is one of the others, cant remeber what that other one is that is in their same family right off hand.
Some consider them the same species, which to an extent they are, they are just different subspecies of the same bird. There are 4 in their subspecies group I believe actually. The Andean teal is one of the others, cant remeber what that other one is that is in their same family right off hand.
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