What vines could I plant to grow on the pea's cage that would not be toxic?

[flgardengirl]

Just one word of caution for anyone who lives in Florida...I would stick with roses that are grafted onto Fortuniana rootstock. A lot of them are now but they don't sell them at the big box stores etc. you may have to order them online. Another option is sticking with old garden type roses (aka OGRs). The reason being that the Fortuniana rootstock is nematode resistant and so are the old garden type roses. Nematodes are a huge problem with Florida soils. It might not be as bad of a problem in the panhandle area of FL but it is here in NE FL and throughout the rest of it. I do keep some hybrid teas and tree roses that aren't grafted etc in pots and the nematode damage isn't as bad that way. The OGR roses are also more resistant against blackspot as well which is a huge problem in the south with our heat and humidity. You could probably prop climbing potted roses against a trellis as well.
Here is a website that has the Fortuniana grafted roses and tells about them for the south http://www.kandmroses.com/ . It is just one example there are many places that sell them.

Another thread about growing roses in FL. http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/flgard/msg0121062510892.html This site (gardenweb) helped me a lot when I first started growing roses in the humid south. I was used to the drier southwest where you could just put any old rose in the ground and it would grow like crazy lol. If you do some searches on this site you can get lots of good info on growing roses here.

 

[AquaEyes]

Just one word of caution for anyone who lives in Florida...I would stick with roses that are grafted onto Fortuniana rootstock. A lot of them are now but they don't sell them at the big box stores etc. you may have to order them online. Another option is sticking with old garden type roses (aka OGRs). The reason being that the Fortuniana rootstock is nematode resistant and so are the old garden type roses. Nematodes are a huge problem with Florida soils. It might not be as bad of a problem in the panhandle area of FL but it is here in NE FL and throughout the rest of it. I do keep some hybrid teas and tree roses that aren't grafted etc in pots and the nematode damage isn't as bad that way. The OGR roses are also more resistant against blackspot as well which is a huge problem in the south with our heat and humidity. You could probably prop climbing potted roses against a trellis as well.
Here is a website that has the Fortuniana grafted roses and tells about them for the south http://www.kandmroses.com/ . It is just one example there are many places that sell them.

Another thread about growing roses in FL. http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/flgard/msg0121062510892.html This site (gardenweb) helped me a lot when I first started growing roses in the humid south. I was used to the drier southwest where you could just put any old rose in the ground and it would grow like crazy lol. If you do some searches on this site you can get lots of good info on growing roses here.

Yes, avoid Hybrid Teas altogether. Besides the fact that most wouldn't do well in Florida without lots of TLC and living in pots, the plants themselves won't grow into what you want -- a climbing plant to provide cover and beauty. Even the climbing Hybrid Teas are really best growing on a small trellis, against a house, or wrapped around a pillar. To grow on a pen, you want something that will spread and fill out wide.

Look through the Vintage Gardens website -- they have a diagram for each rose class to show general shapes of growth. You want to find a plant that grows the way you want in your location, THEN narrow down based on the pretty flowers. Don't go for flower first.

The Old Garden Rose classes that would do well for you are the climbing versions of Teas, Chinas, Noisettes and Tea-Noisettes. Lady Banks' roses are forms or hybrids of a species that lives in a warm climate, and Fortuniana itself has the White Lady Banks rose as one of its parents. Hybrid Giganteas are roses bred from the tropical tree-climbing species that is an ancestor of the old Teas, and while many are once-blooming, some repeat.

Also consider taking a soil sample to test for the pesky root knot nematodes -- you might have lucked out and be free of them. Raised beds filled with rich organic matter will help discourage them, as will planting a cover crop of marigolds or adding beneficial nematodes to the soil (available from organic garden supply centers). I'm trying to encourage you to go for roses because I think that using a pen or aviary for a big trellis is an awesome idea, and plan on doing it myself when I get down there in a few years.

Country Care Roses

 

[Yoda]

Not to steal the thread but what about morning glory or moonflower vines?

 

[flgardengirl]

I believe moonflower and morning glory seeds are toxic. That being said, I have them all over my property with the chickens, turkeys, ducks, guineas free ranging and they don't seem to bother them too much. They do have 3+ acres to run around on and more out in the woods adjoining the property. I do try to keep the seeds picked up though (harvest the pods before they split) I can't always get to all of them and I see the key west chickens in particular under the vines scratching around but no ill effects.
I don't think I would plant anything toxic in or near the bird pens though because they might just consume large amount out of boredom or just because its the only green thing they can get to etc. When they are free ranging I don't think they eat as much toxic stuff, mostly scratch for bugs and eat grass and weeds/seed etc. I also have passiflora vines in our yard which the leaves are toxic but the chickens couldn't give a hoot about them. The ripe fruit is a different story though lol. They also love to eat up the figs off my smaller trees.
I also do have stuff like datura and brugmansia growing in the yard (not in the pens) and they seem to leave it alone.

 

[AquaEyes]

You can also look into nasturtiums (most modern varieties are bred to be bushy and compact, so seek those that are "old fashioned" climbers with heights listed in feet, not inches) and other species in their genus, Tropaeolum. They are completely non-toxic, and the leaves and flowers can be included in salad mixes. Nasturtiums are annuals (but some of their relatives are perennials in warmer climates), so you'd have to rely on re-seeding (natural or done by you) to keep them coming back every year.

I mentioned on the other thread (linked in my first message here) that hops (Humulus lupulus) can also work.

 

[MinxFox]

What about the passion flower vine? I was thinking about maybe trying to plant that on the pen fence.

 

[AquaEyes]

What about the passion flower vine? I was thinking about maybe trying to plant that on the pen fence.

I have seen passion flowers on some "toxic" lists, and on some "safe" lists. My gut feeling is that they are fine, but an animal can get sick if it chows down on a lot of leaves. I have a book on fruiting plants that grow well in Florida (mentioned in the post I linked earlier in this thread) that has a little "toxicity" statement for each plant entry. For example, some trees are listed as having an irritating sap or leaves, or parts that must be cooked before eating, etc. There is no such statement for passion fruit (several species are mentioned) or the plants on which they grow (passion flower vines, genus Passiflora). And I've seen various species and hybrids being used in tropical aviaries in zoos. One caveat I want to mention is that the plants tend to spread via underground runners, so if you go with them, perhaps you'd be better off using a large tub or planter rather than planting directly in the ground. That could also help with adding height to where the plant starts clinging to the fence, keeping it out of reach of your peas. Not all forms give edible fruit, but there's a nice selection of varieties at Logee's Greenhouse. I've ordered some plants from them before and was very happy with what I got.

 

[flgardengirl]

Passiflora leaves are toxic that's why the gulf frit. caterpillars eat them to make themselves toxic to predators. I think some birds can and do still eat them but that was one of the original reasons that the caterpillars ate certain plants...like for example the horn worm caterpillars (hawk moth larvae) eats tomato leaves which is supposed to also be toxic etc. Anyhow, I have read that the immature passion fruits can be irritating as well but are fine once mature. We do have them all over the property here. The Incense variety grows wild as does the regular blue p. caerulea. Chickens don't care about them unless they have ripe fruit on them then they eat them before I can get them picked.

I wouldn't order passies from Logees...not that I have anything against Logees but you get a very small plant through thier mail order.I know people who have went to their actual nursery and can get a better/larger plant that way but I haven't been happy with the small puny sticks they have sent me especially compared to what most of the other nurseries I mail order from now days. So I have kinda quit ordering from Logees.

I get most of my vines now through zone9 tropicals. http://zone9tropicals.com/ They send more like gallon sized plants on a really nice trellis with actual vines on them LOL. Like all mail order nurseries, it is more economical if you order 2 things vs one to get better shipping prices.

Logees used to be good for getting some hard to find stuff. Years ago, I got my Indian Night Jasmine trees (Nyctanthes arbor-tristis) from Logees by emailing them and asking them to start me a plant even though they don't advertise them in their catalog anymore and they did it. They were tiny sticks in a pot when I got them and it took several months of babying to get them to decent size but I was happy to have them. Zone9 tropicals has way larger plants though, and also has a lot of rarer things and had alot of rarer things before Logees recently added them in the last few years. Zone 9 tropicals is in Texas so can ship to the southern states sooner.
Logees also used to sell some of their citrus as a rooted cutting instead of as grafted trees. Before I lived in FL, I ordered Buddah's Hand and Thai limes from Logees and they sent rooted cuttings not grafted trees!! Everyone knows that you should only buy citrus as a grafted tree (except maybe key limes and citron used for religious purposes but that is a diff story lol). So that was the last time I got citrus from them. I went to Four Winds Citrus after that! Too bad they don't have Four Winds Citrus in FL. I think its the best!

If you want a great source for more unusual passionflowers I really suggest Elizabeth from Grassy Knoll she has the largest collection of passies I've seen and always adding new ones. I have ordered from her many times and have been very happy with her plants. They are smaller than zone 9's but larger than Logees and very healthy.
website to grassy knoll (passiflora) http://gkexoticplants.com/catalog/Passiflora-2-2.html

 

[AquaEyes]

That's good information to know. Aside from two passion flowers, everything I got from Logee's has been houseplants, and yes, they were small when they arrived, but grew fast. I don't have experience with citrus from them (I'm in NY). I'm saving the nursery links you provided -- fun stuff in there! Thanks.

 

[AquaEyes]

FLGARDENGIRL, you're evil. I'm going to be living in a jungle after viewing those nurseries' websites.