What would be your choice for best overall layer breed...longevity, hardiness, egg size, winter layi

[Bullitt]

Leghorns are the number one layer. They can be flighty and nervous, but I've found working closely with flighty breeds as chicks lessens this. Many listed as heritage breeds aren't necessarily so. Lots of New Hampshires have Rhode Island red, Barred Rocks have Dominique, Dorkings with Leghorns, etc. Much depends on the honesty of the breeder.

Michael, is that a California Gray in your avatar picture? If so, how are the California Grays?

That is a breed I think should be recognized by the APA.

 

[Michael Apple]

Michael, is that a California Gray in your avatar picture? If so, how are the California Grays?

That is a breed I think should be recognized by the APA.

Hi, Bullitt. Yes, it is a CA Gray. That was before his sickle feathers came in. I need to get some current pics of him. I'd like to see them recognized too by the APA. I think with the amount of Leghorns winning at meets, and the enthusiasm for Leghorns, the CA Gray is seen as an illegitimate child of sorts. I think it would take an excellent standard of Plymouth Barred Rock roosters and White Leghorn Hens to give this breed the recognition it deserves. Dryden had a good thing going and lots of work toward the CA Gray. They weren't as sought after by industrialized egg producers like Leghorns were.

Some other folks have obviously been keeping the breed going too since they are still around. I've often seen these bulbous Rock looking birds trying to be passed off as CA Grays. They are a light bodied bird like the Leghorn. They need a covered yard. They are very similar to leghorns the way they behave. They are not aloof though and will approach you. I believe much depends on how chicks are reared. This is only my first year with this breed, but am pleased with the good sized, snow white eggs I get every day. They start out with Bantam sized eggs at about 20 weeks and progressively get larger over the coming month or two.

I also want to clarify my last post. I know Barred Rocks naturally have Dominique in them. The same with Rhode Island Red in the New Hampshire. I just wonder if the balance was upset somehow in breeding practices to where one genetic aspect overcomes the other, as well as too much inbreeding just to produce a preferred plumage while ignoring the body types and good egg production. I'm attempting to educate myself more on the matter. I came across a good book I have yet to finish called Genetics of the Fowl by Hutt.

 

[Bullitt]

Hi, Bullitt. Yes, it is a CA Gray. That was before his sickle feathers came in. I need to get some current pics of him. I'd like to see them recognized too by the APA. I think with the amount of Leghorns winning at meets, and the enthusiasm for Leghorns, the CA Gray is seen as an illegitimate child of sorts. I think it would take an excellent standard of Plymouth Barred Rock roosters and White Leghorn Hens to give this breed the recognition it deserves. Dryden had a good thing going and lots of work toward the CA Gray. They weren't as sought after by industrialized egg producers like Leghorns were.

Some other folks have obviously been keeping the breed going too since they are still around. I've often seen these bulbous Rock looking birds trying to be passed off as CA Grays. They are a light bodied bird like the Leghorn. They need a covered yard. They are very similar to leghorns the way they behave. They are not aloof though and will approach you. I believe much depends on how chicks are reared. This is only my first year with this breed, but am pleased with the good sized, snow white eggs I get every day. They start out with Bantam sized eggs at about 20 weeks and progressively get larger over the coming month or two.

I think if the California Gray would have been bred just a little sooner it would be a recognized breed.

California Gray is not just a simple cross of the White Leghorn and Barred Plymouth Rock, right? I understood they were created using multiple generations of crossings.

How many eggs are California Gray hens supposed to lay per year?

 

[Michael Apple]

I think if the California Gray would have been bred just a little sooner it would be a recognized breed.

California Gray is not just a simple cross of the White Leghorn and Barred Plymouth Rock, right? I understood they were created using multiple generations of crossings.

How many eggs are California Gray hens supposed to lay per year?

Particularly it is a Barred Rock rooster to a White Leghorn hen.
Word has it that they match the Leghorns for egg production.

 

[Bullitt]

Particularly it is a Barred Rock rooster to a White Leghorn hen.
Word has it that they match the Leghorns for egg production.

No, the California Gray is not created with just a cross of a Barred Plymouth Rock rooster and a White Leghorn hen. That would be a hybrid. California Gray is a breed that breeds true.

Here is some information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Gray
"Lady MacDuff, the first hen laying 300+ eggs, was a 7/8 Leghorn x 1/8 Barred Rock called an "Oregon" and was the result of this program."

That would mean it took at least three generations to create that California Gray hen. It was probably more. And that had to be done with at least two groups of chicks, and then members of one group could be bred to members of the other group so that they bred true. That is when they had a breed.

 

[Michael Apple]

No, the California Gray is not created with just a cross of a Barred Plymouth Rock rooster and a White Leghorn hen. That would be a hybrid. California Gray is a breed that breeds true.

Here is some information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Gray
"Lady MacDuff, the first hen laying 300+ eggs, was a 7/8 Leghorn x 1/8 Barred Rock called an "Oregon" and was the result of this program."

That would mean it took at least three generations to create that California Gray hen. It was probably more. And that had to be done with at least two groups of chicks, and then members of one group could be bred to members of the other group so that they bred true. That is when they had a breed.

I've never heard that before. I'm suspicious of what's posted on Wikipedia, but that's worth looking into though. We'll know if they breed true if these eggs are hatched. What little info exists, everything I've ever read about CA Greys states the cross is the Barred Rock rooster with the White Leghorn hen.

 

[Bullitt]

I've never heard that before. I'm suspicious of what's posted on Wikipedia, but that's worth looking into though. We'll know if they breed true if these eggs are hatched. What little info exists, everything I've ever read about CA Greys states the cross is the Barred Rock rooster with the White Leghorn hen.

Most of what is on Wikipedia is accurate. But you don't have to believe that website. If your chickens don't breed true, then you do not have a breed of chicken.

What you are describing would be a hybrid. That would not be a breed of chicken.

You can create the California White, which is a hybrid, by crossing a California Gray rooster with a White Leghorn hen. The California White is not a breed.

By the way, it is California Gray. Gray with an a. I know the color can be spelled Gray or Grey. But the breed name is California Gray.

 

[Michael Apple]

No, the California Gray is not created with just a cross of a Barred Plymouth Rock rooster and a White Leghorn hen. That would be a hybrid.

Aren't most chickens recognized as breeds by the APA intra-specific hybrids (subspecies within a species)? Hybridization was sought to create many breeds now recognized by the APA. I'm unaware of how breeds become established to "breed true". I know breeders often have to go back and introduce new blood from one or the other breeds originally used to create an established breed. I'm still learning about genetics, so perhaps you could explain some of that.

 

[newbie32]

Aren't most chickens recognized as breeds by the APA intra-specific hybrids (subspecies within a species)? Hybridization was sought to create many breeds now recognized by the APA. I'm unaware of how breeds become established to "breed true". I know breeders often have to go back and introduce new blood from one or the other breeds originally used to create an established breed. I'm still learning about genetics, so perhaps you could explain some of that.

Sorry to butt in I just wanted to say that no not all chickens are recognized as breeds. Guess how many bantams there are in the world-and then guess how many are actually recognized as a true breed-1

They recognize a bantam duck too but we are talking chickens!

 

[Bullitt]

Aren't most chickens recognized as breeds by the APA intra-specific hybrids (subspecies within a species)? Hybridization was sought to create many breeds now recognized by the APA. I'm unaware of how breeds become established to "breed true". I know breeders often have to go back and introduce new blood from one or the other breeds originally used to create an established breed. I'm still learning about genetics, so perhaps you could explain some of that.

The APA does not recognize hybrids. It has to breed true to be considered as a breed, by anyone.

You can cross different breeds of chickens to create a new breed. But it takes multiple crossings, meaning multiple generations. If you cross a rooster of one breed with a hen of another breed you have a hybrid. The offspring can then be bred, but you will get a variety of offspring from those parents.