What's with the 5 year/mos old?

[Mmmatt13]

PeaDaddy,
With the mix of birds you have, the offspring will be mostly IB, as that is the base color. It's hard to explain, but for the most part, any "color" bred to any other "color" other than India Blue will not produce a combination of the two colors, but will resort in a visibly India Blue bird that carries the genetics of the parents, or are "split to" whatever the other colors are. Though the patterns (silver pied, black shoulder, etc.) do the same type of thing. Unless you have two parent birds that have the same pattern (for the most part), the offspring will be "split to" the pattern. Every once in a while a new mutation occurs by breeding two different colors together, but that's a small chance. Generally to produce birds of any color, the parent birds have to be the same color, or at least split to it, otherwise you will get IB splits.

Again, I hope that makes sense!

 

[Arbor]

But basically, before we delve to deep into the genetics, could you guys take a look at my birds, posted in "Show Off Your Peas" and tell me if, in fact, I own what I was told; 2 IB 6 mos olds, a Cameo Oaten young female, Bronze female, and a Silver pied male. I'll hit on the rest this evening.

Looks correct to me, a pair of young IB, Cameo Blackshoulder hen(used to be known as Oaten, but no longer part of the variety names), Bronze female and Silver pied male.

Back to the Charcoal subject. To date, any IB Charcoal hen that has laid eggs, were not fertile. However, higher % Spalding Charcoal hens have apparently produced fertile eggs for Brad Legg.
Many have speculated that nutrition can indeed fix this problem. So far no one has shown any proof or visible results leading to this belief - I have yet to try this coming season. Charcoals also do not have a very long lifespan. Usually 7-9 years.

To the colour combinations - I know for a fact that two colours (not patterns) can be combined to produce a mixed colour between the two. It takes a lot of time, luck and peachicks to get these to occur, but it also requires a bit of genetic knowledge to be able to do this. You are right to delve into the genetic aspect prior to breeding season. You do have a lot of potential with the birds you do have, but with any breeding program, you have to have goal, like you said earlier.

If you have a goal to produce Charcoal, you'll have to work with a male, and some split hens. I have a pair of offspring from this year that are Silver pied split to charcoal - of their offspring only 25% will be charcoal, of which (in theory) half will be hens, and of no use to me. 50% will be IB split to charcoal, and the remaining 25% will be IB. Of all of these, I still get a mix of patterns - white, silver pied and dark pied white eyed. My odds of producing a silver pied charcoal male - very low, and it may take years to achieve.

If you like the colours you have, it would be much easier to purchase the opposite sex, so you don't have to go through years of breeding in order to get one. I don't have the luxury of having access to all the birds I would like to have, so some of them I have to work with to get what I want - ie. bronze blackshoulder

 

[Mmmatt13]

If you like the colours you have, it would be much easier to purchase the opposite sex, so you don't have to go through years of breeding in order to get one. I don't have the luxury of having access to all the birds I would like to have, so some of them I have to work with to get what I want - ie. bronze blackshoulder

 

[PeaDaddy]

PeaDaddy,
With the mix of birds you have, the offspring will be mostly IB, as that is the base color. It's hard to explain, but for the most part, any "color" bred to any other "color" other than India Blue will not produce a combination of the two colors, but will resort in a visibly India Blue bird that carries the genetics of the parents, or are "split to" whatever the other colors are. Though the patterns (silver pied, black shoulder, etc.) do the same type of thing. Unless you have two parent birds that have the same pattern (for the most part), the offspring will be "split to" the pattern. Every once in a while a new mutation occurs by breeding two different colors together, but that's a small chance. Generally to produce birds of any color, the parent birds have to be the same color, or at least split to it, otherwise you will get IB splits.

Again, I hope that makes sense!

Sort of. When you say "split to" are you talking in a hatching? For example, in a clutch of 5 eggs (IB x SP) I'll get 3 Silver Pied, and 2 IB? Is that what you mean by split? Or do you mean I'll get an IB x SP split genetically with the dominant gene presenting itself, but an ever present recessive gene showing up somewhere down the road?

Something in what you said doesn't make sense. Let's take Ice Cream (Cameo) for example. Ice Cream is by an IB and the mother was an IB split Cameo. So, if we take the white male and pair him with the cameo, we'll get blue. Or if we cross the Bronze on a cameo, we'll get IB?

 

[connerhills]

PeaDaddy,, one other thing to look at is that the sex like colors .. purple, peach , cameo and violete are bred different than the other colors.. A sex link color can not be split to any other color, they are either the color or not the color. But not so with the males. As I understand your saying the cameo was from a cameo split hen , this does not happen. so I would guess that your male was split to cameo and the hen was blue and the chick is a female . If you take the white male and pair with the cameo female you will get blue females split to white and blue males split to white and cameo. The bronze on the cameo hen will get you blue females split to bronze and blue males split to bronze and cameo. You will find the proper word for splits but what is means when spoken in the peafowl reference is that it carrys the gene for something else... connerhills .... [email protected]

 

[Mmmatt13]

Sort of. When you say "split to" are you talking in a hatching? For example, in a clutch of 5 eggs (IB x SP) I'll get 3 Silver Pied, and 2 IB? Is that what you mean by split? Or do you mean I'll get an IB x SP split genetically with the dominant gene presenting itself, but an ever present recessive gene showing up somewhere down the road?

Something in what you said doesn't make sense. Let's take Ice Cream (Cameo) for example. Ice Cream is by an IB and the mother was an IB split Cameo. So, if we take the white male and pair him with the cameo, we'll get blue. Or if we cross the Bronze on a cameo, we'll get IB?

Nope split to as in, if I bred an India Blue Black Shoulder (two black shoulder genes) to a regular Barred Wing India Blue (two barred wing genes), the offspring would get one barred wing gene and one black shoulder gene from each parent, but since Black Shoulder needs two genes to show up physically, it will look India Blue Barred Wing, but will carry a Black Shoulder gene, so it is an India Blue (with Barred Wing pattern) split to Black Shoulder.

Cameo is a sex linked color (so are Purple and Peach), and I'm not good with those. I don't think hens can be split to a sex linked color... I'm not 100% good with genetics but from what I understand if you bred your Cameo to the white male, I THINK the cocks would be India Blue split to Cameo split to White, and the hens would be India Blue split White. Same with Bronze, males would be IB split to Cameo and Bronze, and females would be IB split Bronze. But don't quote me. Peafowl genetics are crazy. As I understand it, unlike how humans are XX for females and XY for males, peafowl (maybe all birds in general) are opposite, except with different letters that I can't remember right now, so females have the equivalent to XY and males the equivalent to XX, so sex linked colors have to take that into account. I hope I'm right, but someone who knows for sure will hopefully chime in if I'm wrong.

 

[Arbor]

Sort of. When you say "split to" are you talking in a hatching? For example, in a clutch of 5 eggs (IB x SP) I'll get 3 Silver Pied, and 2 IB? Is that what you mean by split? NOPE Or do you mean I'll get an IB x SP split genetically with the dominant gene presenting itself, but an ever present recessive gene showing up somewhere down the road? Yes, more correct.

Basically, as both Maddie and George have said, a "split to" bird is just a carrier of whatever colours and or patterns the parent birds have.

Peafowl genetics are crazy. As I understand it, unlike how humans are XX for females and XY for males, peafowl (maybe all birds in general) are opposite, except with different letters that I can't remember right now, so females have the equivalent to XY and males the equivalent to XX, so sex linked colors have to take that into account. I hope I'm right, but someone who knows for sure will hopefully chime in if I'm wrong.

Yes, in all birds this is correct. With sex-linked birds, the colour is carried on the male or X chromosome. Since a female is XY, it receives the colour it has from it's father's X (making it dominant over the female chromosome) and its sex (being female) from the Y.

 

[PeaDaddy]

Thanks for all of the replies. I got all of my answers through these posts. You guys are great! We're definitely adding some Greens. How many and what species needs to be figured out. Charcoal is off the list due to the fertility and egg laying issue. Thanks, @Yoda! I'll let's the pro's figure that out... Anyone have an all white hen they want to sell? Something around, say, 5 years old or so.... THAT shouldn't be hard to find.

Honestly, something sexually mature is preferred. And one that is DEFINITELY a girl.

 

[Yoda]

Remember, try to know the background of the white bird you might purchase. For example my 2 yr old white peacock came from the charcoal pair. Now if I breed him to another split to charcoal hen and I end up with charcoal chicks he will be a white charcoal and worth more according to Deerman's emails and if not he would be white IB split to charcoal. It will also help you in future breeding to create the colors you want to achieve. Good record keeping like Frenchy always says is key!

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Yoda,when I moved the first group of 2012 peas out to the palace sunday eve,two of those birds was hacted from my BSSP hens.These were the first eggs the hens laid for me afer I bought them and got them home from Bigcreekpoultry.The hens was in an overflow pen with maybe 35 birds in it with maybe 5-6 diffrent males,many was IB B/S,a Cameo,and others.These first two hatched chicks look like IB,but one which is a hen does have a few white flights.The other looks like a male with no white anywhere on him.I could sell them as IB or IB with carrying 1 copy of white but I know there is much more genetics hidden in these birds than they show.Thang also has done this to me,there is also a young male in this first group that looks 100% IB,,yet I know what he's got hidden in his genetics,just as an all white also coming fromThang,,I think this is why so many breders gets unexpected results.I can tell you what genes are in the bird even tho they don;t show it,and if the buyer doesn't care about being "split to" the bird will be used just as it shows.If it looks IB,it will be used as an IB,,recordkeeping here is getting very meticulous but just using these 4 hatched peas for an example three of these could be passed off as being a "pure" color and one carrying 1 copy of w/e,when I know it also has another since the mom was a bssp.