When to stop feeding Start & Grow?

[GimmeCake]

Wait, wait, wait. So which food is healthier?

 

[LTygress]

Extra protein doesn't actually harm them very much as they grow or after they are grown. It's like a human getting extra protein - our body can take a LOT more than it needs before the negative side effects are seen. And in laying hens, the extra protein transfers to the egg which makes it healthier to eat, and healthier for developing/hatching chicks.

Extra calcium can cause issues faster than protein, since calcium (unlike protein) builds up over time in certain parts of the body (think: kidney stones). Protein doesn't cause rapid growth though - even in chickens. Extra HORMONES would be the cause of that. And since chickens are used for two separate sources of food (meat and eggs), hormones are very common in their feed.

 

[LeBlackbird]

You're not considering where protein comes from in chicken feed. Higher protein=Higher corn content. Higher corn content=Higher energy/fat content. Starter is starter for a reason, older birds will store the extra energy as fat. Older birds need "leaner feed", they cannot store all of the extra fat in their eggs, they will layer the fat around their organs. According to my personal expirience, bantams get obese way easier then largefowl, and it's very hard to get your chickens to lose weight, so it's essential to feed them a proper diet.

As for rapid growth, yes nutrition can cause it. In chickens, it materializes as laying problems. In waterfowl, it materializes as a condition called Angel Wing.

The calcium levels in layer feed are not great enough to cause health problems in 18+ week old chickens. Roosters everywhere, my farm included, have lived very long, healthy lives on layer feed

 

[crowinncluckn]

LeBlackbird!
Hmm... Very interesting info about possible health issues if feeding with Starter food for a long period of time. I've got to research it more, because I want my birds get the best option. I have a half bag of organic Starter Feed and a Medicated Purina(half bag) and hate the idea of not using it all. My chicks are 6-7 weeks and I am not planning to get new chicks just now. Although I do ferment it for them ( as well they always have a dry option besides it). You made me think about it.
any advice?

I would use it all and switch over once it is gone. While using it long term may cause problems, I don't think the length of time it will take to go through half a bag of food would be considered long term.

 

[LeBlackbird]

Natalijaasbj, you can finish the bag I raise a lot of birds, so feed goes fast here. They're still doing a lot of growing, they'll do just fine. My feed plan is just loose guidlines, give or take a few weeks here and there.

 

[A.T. Hagan]

I keep my birds on starter all the way until I find the first eggs then I begin to transition them over to layer feed. Works great for me.

But if you want to use grower then somewhere around ten-twelve weeks is good. Whenever are close to being out of starter begin mixing in the grower feed about 50/50 until the starter is all gone then just grower after that. Do the same thing again - 50/50 - when you find the first eggs.

Good luck!

 

[donrae]

You're not considering where protein comes from in chicken feed. Higher protein=Higher corn content. Higher corn content=Higher energy/fat content. Starter is starter for a reason, older birds will store the extra energy as fat. Older birds need "leaner feed", they cannot store all of the extra fat in their eggs, they will layer the fat around their organs. According to my personal expirience, bantams get obese way easier then largefowl, and it's very hard to get your chickens to lose weight, so it's essential to feed them a proper diet.

As for rapid growth, yes nutrition can cause it. In chickens, it materializes as laying problems. In waterfowl, it materializes as a condition called Angel Wing.

The calcium levels in layer feed are not great enough to cause health problems in 18+ week old chickens. Roosters everywhere, my farm included, have lived very long, healthy lives on layer feed

How do you get that more corn equals more protein? Corn's not that high in protein, so more corn's going to bring down the protein levels, not raise them. Corn's also not high in fat, it's pretty much starch/carbohydrate.

 

[LeBlackbird]

How do you get that more corn equals more protein? Corn's not that high in protein, so more corn's going to bring down the protein levels, not raise them. Corn's also not high in fat, it's pretty much starch/carbohydrate.

Sorry, should have been more clear. Corn is energy dense, as you said, and works in relation to the protein levels of feed. The two biggest ingredients in most poultry feeds are Corn and Soybean byproduct. The two ingredients rise and fall in unison (to maintain balance) according to what feed is being made. So higher protein feed is more energy dense (higher % corn/soy). Sorry for the confusion, was refering to the relation of the level of ingredients, didn't mean to make it seem like everything came directly from the corn.

I took an informational class on making poultry feed at the Penn state ag center not long ago, the man they had runnning the class was heading their whole feed department! He was very intelligent, easy to work with, and had a wonderful sense of humor. He sent us home with a lot of informational papers, and also a recipe for making layer mash (by the hundred pounds). If anyone would like to take a stab at it, I can probably photocopy it on here

 

[jessienicole]

Ok I've read all this and have some questions....seem like there is a lot of knowledge here! I posted on another thread that I have 14-15 week old silkie and frizzle bantams that were being fed layer feed when I it them at 10 weeks.. I don't know how long they had been on it. I put them on medicated started when I got them because they had cocci. Better now. Are they damaged from the layer? Should I which to grower now? I've kept them on the medicated out of fear I guess of the cocci. Also will the layer feed they got prevent them from laying later on?

 

[LeBlackbird]

Ok I've read all this and have some questions....seem like there is a lot of knowledge here! I posted on another thread that I have 14-15 week old silkie and frizzle bantams that were being fed layer feed when I it them at 10 weeks.. I don't know how long they had been on it. I put them on medicated started when I got them because they had cocci. Better now. Are they damaged from the layer? Should I which to grower now? I've kept them on the medicated out of fear I guess of the cocci. Also will the layer feed they got prevent them from laying later on?

Were the birds being fed layer at a young age? If so, how young? When/where did you get them? Starting birds on layer at a very young age could be detrimental to their health, mainly because of the lack of nutrition but also because of elevated calcium. If you mean they were fed layer from 10-14 weeks, then they should be just fine. They're old enough to eat it for that brief period of time without horrifying effects.

If they were started on it, then I honestly don't know what the effects to their laying will be. I've never heard/seen anyone doing it before. I'd imagine they'd need a little bit of time to catch up on growth with the more appropriate nutrition, if they were on layer long term before 10 weeks. I wonder if it'll effect their maximum eggs size? Keep us updated!