Where is the Silver Lacing in Hackles Coming From?

[draye]

Since this section is entitled genetics, I am asking the question here. This almost 16 week old cockerel is out of a single factor barred male (Delaware x Stukel line Barred Plymouth Rock) over a Blue Plymouth Rock hen, so he's 3/4 Plymouth Rock, though two color varieties, and 1/4 Delaware. I got several solid black pullets from that cross as well. I didn't expect this much silver/white on this male. Is this hackle and wing color coming from the Delaware part of the sire or is it coming from the predominant silver that the sire has, or can we know? I will not be making this cross again, but I did not expect this much off color, at least not to this extent. Just want the answer to tuck away for future reference.

The subject male:





The sire of this male:

@speckledhen ,
I always enjoy seeing your crosses that you do.
I like that new bird!. I have had several pop up in my flock from time to time. Most though are from my EE or EE crosses. Also, I've seen this from Black Australorp crosses.

 

[speckledhen]

@speckledhen ,
I always enjoy seeing your crosses that you do.
I like that new bird!. I have had several pop up in my flock from time to time. Most though are from my EE or EE crosses. Also, I've seen this from Black Australorp crosses.

Thanks draye. He's only here because I had broodies and had to put something under them and, at the time, Rex, the single factor barred male, had access to the Blue Rocks, which he no longer does. I did get a solid blue pullet and a blue barred cockerel, which was my intent in choosing the eggs, and I did expect some black progeny with some off color, but I didn't expect anything that look Birchen.

Marvin, as usual, thank you for your input. You're always willing to try to explain this "alphabet soup" genetics to a dolt like me, LOL.

I have the ad for Maverick and I guess I could put one of the black pullets with him who is five weeks younger, if necessary, to make a pair. They live in the same coop. Wonder if his trait will pass on to his sons.

 

[nicalandia]

Marvin, as usual, thank you for your input. You're always willing to try to explain this "alphabet soup" genetics to a dolt like me, LOL.

I have the ad for Maverick and I guess I could put one of the black pullets with him who is five weeks younger, if necessary, to make a pair. They live in the same coop. Wonder if his trait will pass on to his sons.

yes it will, at least 50% of them should be E/eWh Co/co

 

[speckledhen]

yes it will, at least 50% of them should be E/eWh Co/co

Thank you! Good to know!

 

[red egghead]

this is a clean legged rooster, the light hackles comes from the delaware i don't believe this is any part maran. this is an anomally he is mostly like he should be. sometimes nature will kick you in the head. he is probably exactly what u know he is. the reason is that the delaware gene is very dominant for different colored hackled feathers. crosses of any kind can result in surprises, especially since this is a at least 3 way cross (F2 Cross) he is in a normal range of possibilities for this crossed up bird. i believe he is normal for a three way cross

 

[red egghead]

with this crossed up rooster it will be very difficult to get any consistency, this can be a 4 way cross. with the chances you describe. your best bet to get any kind of consistencies is to breed to a pure bred plymouth rock. these birds have been around a long time, and therefore they have strong genes and are more reliable. otherwise to repeat this phenotype would require isolating the right genes, breeding them dominant or double recessive. that is truly no small task to create a genotype that will produce strictly one phenotype. color is not the only factor if you want other specimens like this very bird consistently. lots of work!

 

[speckledhen]

with this crossed up rooster it will be very difficult to get any consistency, this can be a 4 way cross. with the chances you describe. your best bet to get any kind of consistencies is to breed to a pure bred plymouth rock. these birds have been around a long time, and therefore they have strong genes and are more reliable. otherwise to repeat this phenotype would require isolating the right genes, breeding them dominant or double recessive. that is truly no small task to create a genotype that will produce strictly one phenotype. color is not the only factor if you want other specimens like this very bird consistently. lots of work!

Welcome to BYC~ I no longer have this rooster, gave him to a nice elderly lady in Kentucky who loves him a lot. I wish I knew what he looked like now. Anyway, thanks for the input. I'd forgotten all about this thread!

I did think this male who was the subject of the thread was really a great looking guy. Some crosses are just so cool. The sire of the male died a year ago, sadly, of internal injuries and the Delaware rooster who was that sire's sire also passed away, though form old age, so I just have Barred Rocks, some ancient various hens with no rooster and some little Brahmas coming up. No more wild crosses (unless I have the BR roosters a Brahma gal of their own-and the Brahmas are Darks, Partridge and Blue Partridge, so just maybe there will be some cool crosses, you never know)

 

[MountainMarans2012]

you are correct to assume that Delaware genetic make up is eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co B/B but its not co that is producing the lacing on the hackle, Co does not have that effect on Extended black birds, whats causing this is the combined effect of E/eWh Co/co+ on that cockerel



most E/eWh males I have seen also show some degree of gold/silver leakage on the hackle




homozygous columbian will not turn E/eWh birds into a fully restricted birds like light sussex, the most it will do is restrict the breast area,





This rooster looks Birchen to me.. but E/eWh and Co/co+ can do that to roosters, the reason this cockerel does NOT looks fully Birchen is because birchen cockerels at this stage does not look fully birchen yet, they diplay some hackle gold/silver tones, and as your cockerel is a Birchen look alike(E/ER does that) they have a type of lacing on the hackle….
Birchen based cockerel(Maran)




His father also looked like Birchen Barred rooster, just as you would expect a barred E/eWh Co/co+ S/S B/b+ rooster would look,

Pure Birche ER/ER S/S B/B roosters(Silver cuckoo Maran)




Now look at a genetic mirror image of your rooster(well kind of) this is a Black Sexlink rooster, his genetic make up is E/eWh Co/co+ S/s+(Lemon/golden hue instead of Silver) B/b+

had this Sexlinked rooter be pure for S/S he would have looked like your E/eWh S/S Co/co+ sire




so basically whats going on is, your Extended black bird is not capable of showing its self black plumage because of heterozygosity of E/eWh in this case AND/OR C/co+ affecting its expression making it look like a Birchen bird instead(like most birchen maran cockerels look at that age)


Now a Birchen Maran Pair showing their hackel lacing

You are very knowledgeable about genetics. Could you explain to a non-genetic genius as myself how Martin Silverudd created BBS Birchen feathered Silverudds Blue from Rhode Island Reds, New Hampshire Reds and Legbars for the blue egg gene.
It was believed he used Australorps
(thinking he used BBS Australorps) as well he had written them down in his breeder note book that he had them on the farm same time he created the Silverudds Blue
(Formerly called Isbars).
I lost my last pure SB Cock he was 8 years old.
I only have 1 hen she's half SB x Svarthönas and she lays a blue egg.
I would like to recreate them and bring vitality into the line. I have 1 Blue Australorp Cock & Legbar hens.
I know I can purchase stock from reputable breeders but would like to see what I could achieve.
What's more fun than playing with genetics.