Which came first: Petting or Dominance?

[Outta Here]

I was a professional career dog trainer, having had about 4,000 dogs come through my classes, plus operating a 50-dog kennel where thousands of dogs over the years ran free together in a park-like setting. Rehabilitating aggressive dogs was also my less fun job, and I was called as an expert witness in aggression cases by the police department. I know this isn't a dog forum, but I got to thinking about a similarity between dominant roosters and dominant dogs.
When I posted that my friendliest chick, my lap baby, turned into a vicious cockerel, several people answered that the most petted cockerels often turn mean. But now I'm wondering whether cuddling makes them mean or that the bold, friendly ones who seek cuddling are already the dominant ones?
Now petting doesn't make a dog mean, we all know that. They should be petted and loved many time daily, all their lives. But when you go to pick a puppy from the litter, the first one that runs boisterously out to greet you is Boss Puppy, the most dominant of the litter. The others, even if they could run to you faster, will hold back to let Boss Puppy lead and get first pets, which is his right in dog pack dynamics.
When that pup is taken to its new home, the next dominant one will be the one that runs to greet the next newcomers. I hate to burst the bubble people often have that the first pup that ran out "picked me!" The one that runs to you is just the most dominant of the group. Dominant dogs under a strong leader can be spectacular--or pushy and aggressive under a submissive owner.
Could it be that the more dominant cockerel chick is the one who rushes to be your lap baby?

 

[Aquira]

I'll just add my two cents real quick. When my main batch of chickens (16) were young, I didn't notice much difference between the male and female behavior. My more adventurous ones actually ended up being ladies. None of mine were cuddly though. At most, I'd have a couple that would jump on me for a bit but then go about their way.
I ended up with four cockerels in that batch. None of them super tolerated being grabbed but once you had them they were okay for a bit. All of them would prefer not to be picked up.
One, a silkie, never caused any issues but he also wasn't calm or cuddly.
One, a cochin, eventually started going after people. Very much a brat.
One, a Brahma, had bitten me once cuz he was scared (I was trying to grab him). He was the under dog and got picked on by the other males.
One, I'm guessing is a Java, had the occasional issue when he was young but now is actually the most behaved.
I only have the Brahma and Java left (the two bantams were sent off to a property with tons of room).
Just recently the Brahma has been acting up some. And he was the most coward of them all.

Sorry if I rambled on too much lol. I'm still groggy this morning.

 

[Outta Here]

Thanks for that info!....Mmmm...almost looks like nature over nurture? Mine was a Rhode Island Red, and for sure nature plays a big part, since that breed rooster has created a reputation for being aggressive.

 

[Aapomp831]

When you cuddle or pet a rooster, you simulate a submissive hen’s preening behavior. IMO, a cuddly rooster is a worthless rooster - you want him to strut and be “cocky” so he defends the girls. However, he must be taught to respect you. I walk through the chicken run with my chest puffed out (lol) and with confidence, if he’s in my way I walk right into him and make him move - if he comes towards me I stand my ground and never act intimidated. We have a mutual respect - you understand that I’m the head cock in charge and I won’t bother you, and you protect my girls but still get out of my way when I come in. I even clap back in his face when he does the wing clap thing - just like a dominant rooster would do. And he is a big, proud Rhode Island Red

 

[JacinLarkwell]

In my most recent batch, none of my friendly males have caused problems for me. I've had 4 that cause problems and they're actually all bantam cochins. But they would rather not have been handled as chicks

 

[Outta Here]

When you cuddle or pet a rooster, you simulate a submissive hen’s preening behavior. IMO, a cuddly rooster is a worthless rooster - you want him to strut and be “cocky” so he defends the girls. However, he must be taught to respect you. I walk through the chicken run with my chest puffed out (lol) and with confidence, if he’s in my way I walk right into him and make him move - if he comes towards me I stand my ground and never act intimidated. We have a mutual respect - you understand that I’m the head cock in charge and I won’t bother you, and you protect my girls but still get out of my way when I come in. I even clap back in his face when he does the wing clap thing - just like a dominant rooster would do. And he is a big, proud Rhode Island Red

That makes a lot of sense in the rooster/hen hierarchy to not simulate a submissive behavior. There are similarities in puppy raising in that you give the puppy leadership signals they understand from day one....the difference is that, happily, when your leadership remains established and unchallenged, we can cuddle and kiss our puppies all we want!

 

[Aapomp831]

That makes a lot of sense in the rooster/hen hierarchy to not simulate a submissive behavior. There are similarities in puppy raising in that you give the puppy leadership signals they understand from day one....the difference is that, happily, when your leadership remains established and unchallenged, we can cuddle and kiss our puppies all we want!

Yes! I am the proud owner of the most Well Behaved Dog in the World.