White Brama Loosing Neck Feathers

[junebuggena]

Those estimates are based on commercial type keeping. And more of a starting point than a hard fast rule. Notice they use the words 'minimum' and 'at least'. Think about it like this, the average Buff Orpington takes up about 1.5 sq ft just standing still. Then you have to factor in the 3 to 4 foot wingspan if the bird decides to stretch their wings. They also need room to maneuver up and down onto and off roosts. All of this adds up. And Brahmas get even bigger than Orpingtons, needing even more room. And there are some breeds, like Barred Rocks, that do not enjoy being squished into a too small coop. Mine get particularly grumpy when they need to be confined.
Bottom line, your thinking should never be "How many birds can I fit in here?" It should be "How much space can I give them?" No one has ever regretted going too big. But go too small and you can have serious problems, as you are now finding out the hard way. Overcrowding stress is serious. And new owners don't give it nearly enough consideration.

 

[lazy gardener]

The issues brought up by OP are common problems. My post is not directed at OP, but a general address to the issue of pre-fab coops that are way too small for the number of birds that the manufacturer states they will hold. I wish manufacturers could be held accountable for their false advertising.

Height of the coop, and roost space are often not given the consideration they require. Chickens need room to be able to get up on the roost. They require even more room to get down off the roost. When getting up, they often jump, and when getting down, they are more apt to glide down. Going in either direction, they need to spread their wings. If the roost is so short that they can't get there without landing on their roost mates, or without smacking them with their wings, or doing a face plant into the wall behind the roost... and if they can't get down without smacking into the wall in front of them, there simply is not enough room. Roost time, even when the birds have lots of room is a time when birds spend a lot of time arguing about who gets to sleep where. My flock of 18 has 20 linear feet of roost, and the 2 roosts are 15" away from the next one. They use the lower roost as a launching place, and 16 of them end up crowding onto the top roost. If there is aggression going on, those roosts need to be high enough so that birds on the floor can't easily reach the toes of birds on the roost.

Imagine jumping up on a stool that is 14" square. What happens as you jump? Your arms move back, then forward in a pumping action, you move into a squat position with your butt sticking out. As you jump up, you are in that crouched position. Once your feet are planted on the stool, you can then straighten up and bring your arms back to your side. Jumping down... same thing. You need more space than your foot print to get up or down. Imagine jumping up or down if that stool is placed very close to a wall. Becomes impossible. Imagine jumping up on the same stool when your friend (or a stranger) is standing on a stool RIGHT BESIDE your stool. I can guarantee that at least one of you is going to be frustrated, if not angry by that experience. It's no wonder that chickens expected to live in a too small coop/run with out the option to engage in natural chicken behavior resort to acts of aggression.

 

[junebuggena]

Most people never stop to watch the flock as they go to roost. If they did, they'd realize just how much room each bird needs. Imagine having to sleep in small box, with 8 other people, that's barely big enough to fit you all sitting down. You'd be really cranky too.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

At one time and maybe now also you must have X # of posts to earn the right to post photos.

How's about it Mr. or Mrs. Monitor? Is that still the way it works?

 

[friedokra]

Those estimates are based on commercial type keeping. And more of a starting point than a hard fast rule. Notice they use the words 'minimum' and 'at least'. Think about it like this, the average Buff Orpington takes up about 1.5 sq ft just standing still. Then you have to factor in the 3 to 4 foot wingspan if the bird decides to stretch their wings. They also need room to maneuver up and down onto and off roosts. All of this adds up. And Brahmas get even bigger than Orpingtons, needing even more room. And there are some breeds, like Barred Rocks, that do not enjoy being squished into a too small coop. Mine get particularly grumpy when they need to be confined.
Bottom line, your thinking should never be "How many birds can I fit in here?" It should be "How much space can I give them?" No one has ever regretted going too big. But go too small and you can have serious problems, as you are now finding out the hard way. Overcrowding stress is serious. And new owners don't give it nearly enough consideration.

Well I see where the SF estimates vary from source to source, but these two I quoted were actually from backyard chicken design criteria websites, not commercial websites.

 

[aart]

Quote: But they are based on commercial housing requirements...egg and meat factory farms.
The 4/10 space often cited in the backyard chicken arena basically doubles those to get away from the factory farm conditions.

But many have found that even the 4/10 is a bare minimum in most cases as people start to observe behavioral and disease problems that are often solved by increasing housing space.

Overall, no hard numbers apply finitely to live animals in different situations, but when aggressive behaviors are observed, space is the first thing to look at.
There's a good article linked in my signature about space, take a look.

 

[AUChickenGal]

Animal feed is formulated according to the fancy of the people buying the feed, not according to what is good for the animal eating that feed.

Actually, animal feed is formulated to meet the nutritional requirements of the class and species for which it is labeled, based on current NRC guidelines, when fed as directed on the label (that last bit being the part where animal owners/managers most commonly err).

 

[centrarchid]

Actually, animal feed is formulated to meet the nutritional requirements of the class and species for which it is labeled, based on current NRC guidelines, when fed as directed on the label (that last bit being the part where animal owners/managers most commonly err).

NRC guidelines for chickens developed using confined flocks under thermally neutral conditions with no other significant sources of nutrient inputs other than those explicitly provided by trial design. Genetic background of trial animals differs markedly from most non-commercial breeds. The closest most come to following guidelines is with chicks confined to a brooder.

 

[AUChickenGal]

NRC guidelines for chickens developed using confined flocks under thermally neutral conditions with no other significant sources of nutrient inputs other than those explicitly provided by trial design. Genetic background of trial animals differs markedly from most non-commercial breeds. The closest most come to following guidelines is with chicks confined to a brooder.

Nutrient requirements vary slightly, but not wildly, based on individual metabolism, climate conditions, and housing. That still doesn't mean that feed companies formulate their feeds based on the whims of the general public, as stated in the post that I quoted.

 

[centrarchid]

Nutrient requirements vary slightly, but not wildly, based on individual metabolism, climate conditions, and housing. That still doesn't mean that feed companies formulate their feeds based on the whims of the general public, as stated in the post that I quoted.

The assertion made by chickengeorge I do not support. Some of the rational you use to counter his statements are out on a limb.

When it gets cold during winter, I can realize a two-fold increase in feed intake in my birds relative to what they consume under more moderate temperatures. All the difference can be made with carbohydrate rich grains without negatively impacting intake of other essential nutrients or productivity. Two-fold is significant.

Consider trying to provide a single trial exploring nutrition requirements in chickens that involves a direct comparison between a production breed / strain and one that is not. All I ask is just one.

I am someone that has some role in developing data for NRC and know where some weaknesses remain.