white sumatra

[tadkerson]

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When your breed a black or blue bird to an exchequer- you should get black or blue birds. The only way you will get an excheqer would be if the blue or black carried one mottling gene.

Dominant white is not a part of the exchequer pattern- dominant white produces a white bird normally and is not a part of the exchequer color pattern. You can get birds that are dominant white with some black feathers but these birds are heterozygous or only carry one dominant white gene.

To produce a blue exchequer- cross a blue bird with an exchequer. Then back cross one of the blue offspring with an exchequer- some of the offspring will be blue and white.

Tim

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

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hi

I have a question about the blue sumatras.
if blue sumatras throw back splashed chickens, does that mean that they carry the mottling gene?
if so is it wrong to call them splash instead of mottling sumatra.?
if you have more info about the blue color in sumatras and the origin of this color please share , i would like to know how it interact with other color ?
thank you in advance

Blue sumatra can produce mottled (splashed ) chickens. If your cross a black that carries a mottling gene with a blue that carries a mottling gene then some of the offspring will be black mottled white and some could be blue mottled white. A person could produce a blue chicken with white mottling.

Splash is a term used to describe a bird that carries two blue genes- so splash should not be used to describe mottling. Mottling can take two forms- mottling as in the ancona or java; the other form is referred to as exchequer as in the leghorn. These forms of mottling are all on a black or even blue background.
Mottling is also used in making other color patterns like mille fleur and speckled. Some birds are incorrectly called spangled (black on end of feather) when they are actually mottled (white on the end of the feather).

The blue gene will dilute the black pigment on a chicken to a blue or gray color. The blue gene usually dilutes black found on any part of a chicken. So the breast of a black breasted red chicken will be diluted to a blue color by the blue gene- the bird will be blue breasted red. The blue gene does not normally dilute the black in the pyle region or tail feathers of a male chicken.

From what I have been able to decifer off the chicken calculator, it looks like some how if you breed a black mottled to a dominate white bird it causes this reverse mottling called exchequer which from what I have seen in other birds is very similar to what you have in that sumatra. According to the calculator, being dominate white based, blue will have no effect on the color pattern.

Breeding a black mottled bird to a dominant white bird will produce white birds not exchequers. Both the mottling and the dominant white genes add white to a chicken. Exchequers are black birds that are mottled. Some dominant white birds also carry the blue gene to help with any black ticking that may be expressed in the bird.

Tim​

Yes Tim,
That's what I thought too on the mottled by dominate white.

However, go to the calculator and put it in....
That's what I was referring to, was wondering why it was showing that

when you put a black mottled in, and cross it to dominate white
the F1's show unicolor white split to mottled
now select the offspring and back cross them on it

the f2's are exchequer colored for some reason (on the calculator) basically a reversed mottled from what we are all use to seeing.
I was confused on this too and was wondering how it was coming up. I always understood that dom white covered all black or blue.
I ran it with blue mottled too, did the same thing.
Then did it with just the exchequer bird to solid black or solid blue, it kept the black white excehquer color, never could get it to "blue" that pattern...but it would then produce some solid blues and solid blacks like Galo is getting from his crosses.

Is this an error on Hinks calculator, or does it possibly explain how Galo got those odd colored sumatras that retain that exchequer color?

 

[tadkerson]

I do not know if there is an error in the calculator. Henk has to decide that. I do crosses in my head and the more difficult ones ( multiple linked genes with crossing over) on paper- so I do not use the calculator. The dominant white gene is quircky- I have been working with the gene for over 8 years and you get all kinds of results with heterozygous birds. You can get birds with several black feathers or red feathers like the birds below.

Tim

 

[gallo4319]

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thank you guys,with all those example of how those colors work.
all the info is going to my records.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

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yep its to be something along those lines then.

As I said, I have never personally worked with the exchequer color. Just been doing stuff on Henks calculator to try to figure out what Galo has.
For some reason on there though, it never gives you a "blued" version in any way.
Yes in the above post I left out a few crosses I did, just getting to the final results, like the dominate white x mottled thing. It did show the all white as expected for the F1 , but on a back cross was showing white with black mottling as the result.

Same on what all I wrote on it using blues to the exchequer,
BUT it was showing them, as dominate white birds , I may have done something wrong to get to that, but the none blued versions always came up , even if you crossed blue or splash to it.

Generally a solid blue split to mottled would be your first result, then as a back cross or cross back to the exchequer, you would expect some blue exchequer to come out, but they never did.
It showed the normal black white ones, solid black, and solid blue, similar to what Galo is getting off his.

That's what has me confussed with it all, on the calculator it doesnt work as you would normally expect it to, yet the results it shows are almost exact to what Galo has been getting....

Kinda stumped on it.

But yes , everything you have said so far is how stuff is supposed to work in the normal world, just curious why it's not on these???

 

[wclawrence]

This bird is not a splash. He is spangled.

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[championsumatra]

I have three splashes a lot of blues and and 4 blacks

 

[Shaffer]

Whites: I got a white pullet from Larry Clionsky he is a member of the Ameraucana Club and can be contacted on their breeders list. The white pullet was recessive white and luckily one of the black males was also carrying the gene. The recessive white though had red combs and wattles and not black. Sold the entire flock to Wm Bender Sr who has some of the birds I think. He also allowed his friend Jim Zook to use the breeders. Jim did produce some plus last year Larry had two white males for sale. Anyone interested may want to contact Larry to see if he still has some available.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

If everything goes as planned, I have it in the works to have some imported this spring. Hopefully nothing falls threw. Will keep things updated on it. Kinda excited about it. They will be coming from the UK where they are far more common and have all the kinks worked out, like the lack of a gypsy face.

 

[cubakid]

If everything goes as planned, I have it in the works to have some imported this spring. Hopefully nothing falls threw. Will keep things updated on it. Kinda excited about it. They will be coming from the UK where they are far more common and have all the kinks worked out, like the lack of a gypsy face.

But the birds there are black skinned. I believe ( don't quote me on this) that our standard lists black skin as a DQ. This is what I learned back when I was breeding them. Ther is a lady locally that breeds whites. I think the white has some effect on the skin in yellow birds. Even the splash that I used to hatch had the black in the legs and face diluted out. The US Sumatras are a yellow skin bird with black legs and face. You can see the yellow skin on the soles of the feet. Maybe the melanizers have some effect on the skin.