Whiting True Blue from McMurray

okay so ... does this mean they will lay either green or brown? (brown gene from commerical layer and either yes/no blue gene from wtb mutation?)
I'm actually curious from a breeding standpoint what would need to happen for me to further the development of the line
like... obviously not breeding any of the hens that lay brown because they wouldnt* have a blue gene... but I guess it's impossible to tell if the roo has the blue gene or not
The wtb mutation line is still a WTB.... so it has two blue egg genes.

every single WTG has one blue egg gene.

for all intents and purposes, they’re an olive egger.

it is theoretically possible to stabilize a green egg layer, but hard as heck. The only breed I think it’s been done in is Silveruud.

the brown egg color gene is really a white egg and there’s like 5-10 genes they think are in charge of the tones of the brown coating, so it’s a total mess to try and map out what genes you’re working on. But, I’m gonna call it a “brown egg gene” anyway.

Add to the mix that the WTG has a straight comb and it’s even harder. The pea comb is loosely linked to the blue egg gene so people cut in line sort of with test breeding to find a blue egg gene cockerel because if an EE or OE cockerel has a pea comb there’s a slightly higher chance they have a blue egg gene.

You would have WTG and you would breed them together. You would eliminate all male offspring. You would wait for the girls to lay, and then, you would eliminate all the blue layers and brown layers. You’re left with green only layers. Some of these would be 1 blue and 1 brown gene, and some (a very few) would be 2 blue genes with brown modifiers left over. I’d breed the females back to the father, the original WTG. We know because he is F1, he has a blue and a brown egg gene.

Then, you have the offspring of that mating, Im not sure if this is called F2 or F3 or what, I don’t really know the differences of those hybrid generations. Let’s call them F3, but, I am probably off. Anyway, you’ll need to start TEST breeding all the the F3 males AND the females. Females are slightly easier because once again, you can eliminate the blue and brown layers visually. Then, you are test breeding just the green layers. The boys of this mating, F3 boys, you have to test breed them ALL. This is because they could have picked up a brown gene from both parents.

To test breed, you take an F3 individual bird and mate them to a white layer breed. You then have to grow out at least 10 of the pullets from the single test mating to laying age. If ANY of the pullets of the test breeding offspring lay white or brown, that F3 individual has to be removed. If the F3 individual has two blue egg genes, all of the offspring will lay a shade of blue to green.

Im not so sure how you would determine, though, if the males carried just two blue egg genes OR carried two blue egg genes AND the brown modifiers (which is what you need). I suppose, but am just guessing here, that you would have to keep only F3 males that test bred to yield all green egg offspring when mated to a white layer…. BUT…. This is deep in these color genetics and I do not know.

Either way, the female test breeding is hard, yes, but, at least you’ve got pullets to deal with no matter what happens. Test breeding to find the roosters from your F3 that carry blue genes means growing out a LOT of birds.
 
The wtb mutation line is still a WTB.... so it has two blue egg genes.

every single WTG has one blue egg gene.

for all intents and purposes, they’re an olive egger.

it is theoretically possible to stabilize a green egg layer, but hard as heck. The only breed I think it’s been done in is Silveruud.

the brown egg color gene is really a white egg and there’s like 5-10 genes they think are in charge of the tones of the brown coating, so it’s a total mess to try and map out what genes you’re working on. But, I’m gonna call it a “brown egg gene” anyway.

Add to the mix that the WTG has a straight comb and it’s even harder. The pea comb is loosely linked to the blue egg gene so people cut in line sort of with test breeding to find a blue egg gene cockerel because if an EE or OE cockerel has a pea comb there’s a slightly higher chance they have a blue egg gene.

You would have WTG and you would breed them together. You would eliminate all male offspring. You would wait for the girls to lay, and then, you would eliminate all the blue layers and brown layers. You’re left with green only layers. Some of these would be 1 blue and 1 brown gene, and some (a very few) would be 2 blue genes with brown modifiers left over. I’d breed the females back to the father, the original WTG. We know because he is F1, he has a blue and a brown egg gene.

Then, you have the offspring of that mating, Im not sure if this is called F2 or F3 or what, I don’t really know the differences of those hybrid generations. Let’s call them F3, but, I am probably off. Anyway, you’ll need to start TEST breeding all the the F3 males AND the females. Females are slightly easier because once again, you can eliminate the blue and brown layers visually. Then, you are test breeding just the green layers. The boys of this mating, F3 boys, you have to test breed them ALL. This is because they could have picked up a brown gene from both parents.

To test breed, you take an F3 individual bird and mate them to a white layer breed. You then have to grow out at least 10 of the pullets from the single test mating to laying age. If ANY of the pullets of the test breeding offspring lay white or brown, that F3 individual has to be removed. If the F3 individual has two blue egg genes, all of the offspring will lay a shade of blue to green.

Im not so sure how you would determine, though, if the males carried just two blue egg genes OR carried two blue egg genes AND the brown modifiers (which is what you need). I suppose, but am just guessing here, that you would have to keep only F3 males that test bred to yield all green egg offspring when mated to a white layer…. BUT…. This is deep in these color genetics and I do not know.

Either way, the female test breeding is hard, yes, but, at least you’ve got pullets to deal with no matter what happens. Test breeding to find the roosters from your F3 that carry blue genes means growing out a LOT of birds.
yeah that's insane. thank you for taking the time to type that out.

the long and short, in my understanding, is the ones I purchase as WTG from the hatchery will lay green eggs, but breeding them for future generations as a breed is more or less out of the question (which is why Whiting is a poultry geneticist with degrees and a company)

but.... if I only breed F1 x F1 ... I would get 25% blueblue 25% brownbrown & 50% bluebrown... but since egg color is more complicated than that, I'm not sure if that leads (respectively) to blue brown and green/olive. (pretty sure that's just me rewording what you already said... creating the "F3")

or I could just get some WTG females & no roo and just collect green /olive eggs

I am mildly bothered that McMurray didn't say anything about this in the blurb though.
 
oh but! I could just breed the wtg willynilly& just end up with great layers that will either make blue green or brown eggs?
not saying I'm gunna tho
 
oh but! I could just breed the wtg willynilly& just end up with great layers that will either make blue green or brown eggs?
not saying I'm gunna tho
Yes! Whiting says that the WTG are the best production birds. You'd be losing some of the intentional hybrid vigor so they may not be quite as consistent, but they'd still be good layers. He says that most of his production sales for his area are for the WTG because their production is so good.
 
Also: I am fairly convinced that the Prairie Bluebell Egger from Hoovers is the same as the WTB, for what its worth.

He does mention that he literally created the WTB line for hatcheries. HE breeds them as feather sexable lines. (That is lost as soon as they leave the hatchery, not something you can maintain without starting from scratch....). Anyway, he mentions "Hatcheries" he sells the breeding stock for feather sex able lines and I am *sure* that Hoover bought them and trademarked a new name for it.
 
Also: I am fairly convinced that the Prairie Bluebell Egger from Hoovers is the same as the WTB, for what its worth.

He does mention that he literally created the WTB line for hatcheries. HE breeds them as feather sexable lines. (That is lost as soon as they leave the hatchery, not something you can maintain without starting from scratch....). Anyway, he mentions "Hatcheries" he sells the breeding stock for feather sex able lines and I am *sure* that Hoover bought them and trademarked a new name for it.

Good to know.
 
Yes! Whiting says that the WTG are the best production birds. You'd be losing some of the intentional hybrid vigor so they may not be quite as consistent, but they'd still be good layers. He says that most of his production sales for his area are for the WTG because their production is so good.
better than the blue?
 
okay so my previous post was incorrect.

basically the WTG would have one blue egg gene and one white egg gene
and they would also have a gene for brown pigment

I've also read that pea comb and blue are close together so I'm unsure how WTG is a straight comb line.
 
okay so my previous post was incorrect.

basically the WTG would have one blue egg gene and one white egg gene
and they would also have a gene for brown pigment

I've also read that pea comb and blue are close together so I'm unsure how WTG is a straight comb line.
It was a mutation.
 

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