Whole Flock — Dead! No Blood, Some Still Suffering; Could It Be Poison

[htollvr]

Botulism? Same questions as above — would it kill within a 24-hour period? I did lose two chicks earlier (about a month and six weeks ago) that probably were the same thing. Again, at the time, I assumed it was the dog. I kept the dog in after that unless we were with him, and no more chickens died, until yesterday. Now I'm not so sure it was him, as I think back because the symptoms were the same.

It has been rainy, and I'm down to the bottom of the feed bag, but the chicken house is dry, the food is inside, and the corn is dry. There is no apparent sign of mold, but of course, that doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[tiffanyh]

I would think it could be botulism and or perhaps some sort of toxin. I understand why everyone thinks dog....but if they were ingesting toxin and having soft stools which woudl then end up on their rear feather, this time of year will attract flies. I might consider sending out one for an autopsy since you dont want to get more if it is a toxin (which is what I suspect).

My friends dog had botulism and they use laxative and it was amazing how quickly it bounced back. Those symptoms came out in a day or two.

 

[jhm47]

Sounds like some sort of predator attack to me. Mareks would not have killed them all in such a short time. I also doubt that it was the waterer, however, you do need to change the water at least every other day. When it gets warm, algae and bacteria can quickly build up in tepid water. You also should disinfect your waterer with bleach at least once a week or so. I have one of those plastic waterers, and smelly gunk builds up in it quickly in hot weather. I now only use it in winter.

Your coop will be fine. Clean it out, and get some more birds. Consider this a costly, emotional learning experience.

One thing I have learned in my nearly 60 years of raising chickens is that they seem to be searching for a way to die, and they usually succeed in finding it. The birds that are confined all the time, and have their environment and food and water sources carefully controlled are less likely to find a way to die, but those that free-range have nearly unlimited possibilities.

 

[CMV]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=207448
Check out this link and see if it looks familiar to what you are dealing with. Post #2.

 

[htollvr]

I just looked up botulism, and boy, does it look like my chickens. The fact that it gets worse during rainy seasons is right on. It's rained here for a week straight, and as the chickens have gotten older, they have started going outside more into a large fenced in yard. There would be no way for me to police that and see what might be dead and rotting in there. So that's definitely a possibility.

I feel really bad now that perhaps I killed two of the chickens that might have survived. Lincoln and Pepper were in the weeds, and because I thought they'd been attacked, I thought they had internal injuries, so I killed them so they would not suffer. If it was botulism, then perhaps they would have survived, and I wouldn't have minded waiting because, if it's just nerve damage, then they wouldn't be suffering (right?). So I may have killed them unnecessarily.

But, if it was botulism, I didn't know. I don't like to think about it. The person's response, "Consider it a costly learning experience" is so incredibly true.

The other thing I have to remember is that I really don't want a flock of chickens. I want pet chickens, so I need fewer that I can really concentrate on, provide a controlled environment for, and treat as what they are — pets and playmates for the children.

 

[CMV]

Don't beat yourself up too badly. It happens. We can't know everything. You do need to locate the source of the botulism, though. Good luck.

 

[tiffanyh]

NO point in second guessing that decision now. You did what you felt was right with the information you had at the time. They were suffering at that moment and you dont know when or if they would have bounced back.

It seems as if you are positive it was not a predator attack. You said the dog couldnt get at them and there were no other signs. Maybe if one bird dies with no physical signs but the chance of a predator killing a whole flock without one singal outward injury is unlikely in my opinion.

I guess now it would be about looking into the environment and if it is botulism, how to control that for reoccurance reasons.

 

[htollvr]

Yes, I'm pretty sure now it wasn't an attack because my two favorites died in my front yard — in front of the road. The others died in the chicken house or in the fenced chicken yard, which is 100 feet away. The chance of a predator attacking and killing all my chickens in a short period of time (24 hours) while I'm home just doesn't make any sense.

I also noticed in the botulism pages that it makes the feathers release more easily. I have been noticing a lot of feathers around the chicken house as the weather got hotter. I thought it was like cats and dogs that molt to stay cooler. It also explains why I initially thought it was an attack because, in some cases, there were piles of feathers. I thought they'd been attacked, but if it was botulism, then it woudln't have taken much for them to have lost the feathers if they'd been sitting, then got up and moved somewhere else. So the piles of feathers does suggest botulism, from what I'm reading now.

I think I need to have my chickens nearer the house where I can keep a better eye on them. The girls go up and play with them almost every day, but I don't always go. It can be days before I make it over to the chicken house. But if they were closer, like the pets they were intended to be, then it would be so much easier to monitor them and make sure everything is okay.

 

[rstampa]

If you still have a chick that you haven't disposed of then place it in a plastic bag and put it in the refig. (not the freezer). You can call you vet and see if they would do a necropsy for you, a little expensive thou.
You can also call your state agriculture and ask where you can have it done. Often a University will do it for free. These are a few places that I'm suggesting. If they have been died for more then 10-12 hours then don't waste you time. They can't do a true diagnoses when the tissue start to brake down.
Please keep us informed.
My sincere sympathy.

 

[Duck/GooseCRAZY]

I am truly sorry for your loss. I can totally relate with what you are feeling. Our farm has been hit 3 nites in a row and my son's pet rooster "Pretty Boy" that he raised was a victim 2 nites ago. Its one thing when they are your own favorites, but when its your childs....Thats a WHOLE different story. When we built our pen about a year ago, it was to protect from foxes and coyotes. and we have done really well. now we have a new predator on our hands. We are working on the last finishing touches.