Why Do People Buy Live Chicks From Breeders and Farm Stores‭?

[Shadrach]

Some interesting comments in this post. Since it is so long I'll just copy this much to show which post I'm commenting on. Besides it is an interesting comment.

In the States the hatcheries we on this forum usually buy our chicks from might hatch as many as 80,000 to 100,000 chicks a week in season, demand is that great. Hatcheries like Cackle, Meyer, Ideal, McMurray and others. The season is not year around buyt maybe 8 months. How many broody hens would it take to hatch this many chicks a week. As often as hens go broody how many chickens would it take to assure enough broody hens to hatch this many chicks?

In the States, the hatcheries that supply the commercial chicken industry, the hybrid layers and especially the meat birds, often hatch about 1,000,000 chicks a week every week of the year. The individual incubators often hold 60,000 eggs though some may hold as many as 120,000 each each. A little more than hundreds. I don't know how many hatcheries this size there are scattered around the country but there are different companies supplying eggs and meat and they all have a few their own hatcheries. Again, how many broodies would it take to hatch this number of chicks and how big would your overall flock be to assure that many broodies?

The hatcheries we buy from often have some of their own flocks though some also although some also contract out for fertile eggs to hatch. They tend to have different business models but this kind of stuff is fairly normal.

The commercial hatcheries on the other hand have a highly secret genetic make-up for their chickens. They are not going to share that with competitors. Again they can have different business models. Sometimes they keep the flocks that lay the eggs to hatch themselves but it's not that unusual for them to contract out the supply of those eggs, but they tightly control the genetics of the breeding flocks.

@Ridgerunner
Thanks for bothering to post and making a reasonable post without adhominem.
There isn’t much point in continuing the thread because many posters do not read the full post and don’t follow the progression of the thread. It is a long thread now so it requires some effort.
My objection to hatcheries is outlined in the post you answered.
My objection to breeders has been the lack of biosecurity and the selling of diseased chicks.
All the objections are about live chicks sales, not eggs, not pullets, not backyard chicken keeping...
This seems to get overlooked. It would take me hours to respond to each poster and defend my points. Add to this the trolling and off topic content, which I have had my part in, and the thread becomes very difficult to follow. It’s a shame. A lot of people have viewed it and some have sent PM’s rather than contribute directly to the thread.

Before an egg hatches the chick absorbs the yolk. It can live off of that yolk for 72 hours or more before it needs to eat or drink. Nature set that up so the broody hen can wait on the latest eggs to hatch before the first to hatch need to eat and drink. I've had some hatches over within 24 hours of the first to hatch but some others under broodies and in the incubator have takes well into the third day before the last hatched. Those eggs were set at the same time so it was not a staggered hatch. That way the chicks can be shipped without undue stress in the mail as long as delivery is on time.

@Ridgerunner
Thanks for bothering to post and making a reasonable post without adhominem.
There isn’t much point in continuing the thread because many posters do not read the full post and don’t follow the progression of the thread. It is a long thread now so it requires some effort.
My objection to hatcheries is outlined in the post you answered.
My objection to breeders has been the lack of biosecurity and the selling of diseased chicks.
All the objections are about live chicks sales, not eggs, not pullets, not backyard chicken keeping...
This seems to get overlooked. It would take me hours to respond to each poster and defend my points. Add to this the trolling and off topic content, which I have had my part in, and the thread becomes very difficult to follow. It’s a shame. A lot of people have viewed it and some have sent PM’s rather than contribute directly to the thread.

 

[centrarchid]

schadrach, it helps if you post a question or concept and not keep shifting what the discussion about, especially when alternative positions do not align with yours. It frustrates many that have given a lot of thought into attempting to discuss the concepts you originally put forth. Several posters took time to back up statements with facts based on more than emotion. Be considerate of that.

 

[lcwmt]

I have followed this thread from the beginning, have gone back and re-read. There are multiple issues raised, contradictions, adversarial points of view and so forth. On-line can be a challenging means of communication.

As I recall, the original question is stated in the thread topic.

My response was and remains: Farm store chicks are my best option until some of my grown chickens reproduce successfully.
Not all of us are in proximity to breeders or know folks who have breeding chickens. North America is a vast landscape with varying degrees of proximity to any given resource...
In retrospect, my opinion is that the thread, posed as a question, really was not a genuine inquiry. What a disappointment.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Did you read the link in my post?

Let's look at one statement in that link. To keep it in context he is talking about the litter in the shipping container based on the preceding statement.

As the litter becomes damp, skin infections and a parasitic infection called coccidia are extremely likely.

For a chick to get the parasite that causes coccidiosis by pecking at the bedding during shipment that parasite has to be present to start with. With the biosecurity practiced by businesses whose livelihood depends on a good reputation that parasite will not be present. I question whether a veterinarian that states otherwise is truly a veterinarian.

Let's look at another one.

All of these factors are likely to add up to unhealthy or dead birds arriving at their new destination. I do not know what the average percentage of dead birds arriving in a shipment is, but I am sure it is considerable.*

I've received about 75 chicks total in three different shipments from three different hatcheries. I understand that is a very small sample but all chicks arrived alive and healthy. I do not consider a zero percentage of dead chicks to be considerable.

One more and I'll quit

which mails baby roosters as packaging material – called “packers” - to customers who did not order them.

They are generally called packing peanuts. Those are included in smaller orders when weather is expected to be cool during shipment so their body heat added to the other birds in the order will keep them all warm. It is a safety measure to improve the odds of all chicks arriving healthy. You can ask them to not include packing peanuts if you don't want them and take your chances. Pretty nefarious a dastardly trying to help the chicks arrive alive.

I agree a brooder needs to be kept dry for health reasons plus a wet brooder will stink. But hat is not during shipment, they are not in there that long. It is possible a shipment could be delayed which could be a tragedy. Stuff can happen. But the majority of the time it dos not.

There are more statements in that like that but I generally don't consider something from someone that obviously has an agenda to be that reliable. Other can certainly have different opinions.

 

[oldrooster]

There are more statements in that like that but I generally don't consider something from someone that obviously has an agenda to be that reliable. Other can certainly have different opinions.

I've skipped a few pages but to me the OP seams to have an agenda not a question I am surprised the thread has not been locked down or some persons posting here warned because of the tone of many posts here...

My answer to the original post of why some buy from breeders is for certain breeds or because they can get some healthy chicks locally that are the correct breed for their climate. Farm stores is due to price or convenience no 4 or 5 am pick up from the post office, Also if some show up dead no trying to get a refund, also no packing peanuts to deal with. Price is usually close to what the hatchery charges without shipping included, or if it is higher than what you could have shipped to you usually not much higher a few cents.... Sometimes if you are not choosey about breed sometimes you can get such cheap prices on chicks the stores moving the older birds out before the next shipment or the birds are flying out of the bins because they are so old (if that's the case ALL THE BETTER! less feed and anything that may kill them within a few days is not present like genetic problems or unknown deformities).

 

[Jrd7788]

Hatch rates and health are MUCH higher when hatched under a mother hen naturally. The chicks are exposed to diseases like coccidios early on and develop resistance to the diseases. It is always a risk to hatch chicks with anything in case you get and unwanted roo.You should be prepared for that if you hatch chicks. But if you buy pullets and you know that they are hens and you never want to breed or sell any then you’re safe from the risk of roosters. But you never know how the chicks have been raised and if they will contract any diseases to already present hens or show symptoms later in life. Overall, it’s you’re choice to buy or hatch your own chicks. I bought my first 6 chicks from a really good breeder with a lot of recommendations from friends and family. 2 turned out to be roosters but I had a friend who recently lost her flock, so that solved that problem. After that, I hatched a 3 out of 6 in an incubator and 3 out of 3 under a mother hen. So make what you want out of my ranting.

 

[Shadrach]

Let's look at one statement in that link. To keep it in context he is talking about the litter in the shipping container based on the preceding statement.

As the litter becomes damp, skin infections and a parasitic infection called coccidia are extremely likely.

For a chick to get the parasite that causes coccidiosis by pecking at the bedding during shipment that parasite has to be present to start with. With the biosecurity practiced by businesses whose livelihood depends on a good reputation that parasite will not be present. I question whether a veterinarian that states otherwise is truly a veterinarian.

Let's look at another one.

All of these factors are likely to add up to unhealthy or dead birds arriving at their new destination. I do not know what the average percentage of dead birds arriving in a shipment is, but I am sure it is considerable.*

I've received about 75 chicks total in three different shipments from three different hatcheries. I understand that is a very small sample but all chicks arrived alive and healthy. I do not consider a zero percentage of dead chicks to be considerable.

One more and I'll quit

which mails baby roosters as packaging material – called “packers” - to customers who did not order them.

They are generally called packing peanuts. Those are included in smaller orders when weather is expected to be cool during shipment so their body heat added to the other birds in the order will keep them all warm. It is a safety measure to improve the odds of all chicks arriving healthy. You can ask them to not include packing peanuts if you don't want them and take your chances. Pretty nefarious a dastardly trying to help the chicks arrive alive.

I agree a brooder needs to be kept dry for health reasons plus a wet brooder will stink. But hat is not during shipment, they are not in there that long. It is possible a shipment could be delayed which could be a tragedy. Stuff can happen. But the majority of the time it dos not.

There are more statements in that like that but I generally don't consider something from someone that obviously has an agenda to be that reliable. Other can certainly have different opinions.

I've received about 75 chicks total in three different shipments from three different hatcheries. I understand that is a very small sample but all chicks arrived alive and healthy. I do not consider a zero percentage of dead chicks to be considerable.

I’m inclined to give some credence to the vets in the link.
http://www.upc-online.org/transport/71408shippingbirds.html
These are just two posts here on BYC in the last couple of days.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicks-dying-quickly.1278494/

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/brand-new-chicks-drooping-and-dying.1278600/

 

[Mosey2003]

Hatch rates and health are MUCH higher when hatched under a mother hen naturally.

I think they *can* be, but you can't really support a frank statement like that. My last hatch had 34/35 hatch and I only lost one chick that failed to thrive. IF you know what you're doing and put the effort in, you can do at least as good a job as a broody, health and hatchwise, if not better.

 

[igorsMistress]

I started with chicks from the feed store. I didn't know anyone on this site, didn't have an incubator and wanted low risk of getting a rooster. I got 1 in the 6 I brought home. I bought chicks from a private party, 2 were roos and 2 were pullets but didn't know that until it was too late.

Later I added known pullets to my flock...I knew they were pullets and they were the breed I wanted to add.

Hatching you have roughly a 50/50 chance of getting a rooster that you can't have or might not want. Many people are unable or unwilling to deal with that...not everyone knows how to process meat nor do they have the stomach to do it.

Things change for some people, for others they keep chickens as pets with benefits and that's their mindset.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

About‭ ‬11‭ ‬years ago I... had this idea that buying chicks from a breeder would mean that a hen had reared the chicks until they were fully feathered and ready for‭ ‬sale.‭ ‬At the time,‭ ‬I thought this far better than buying eggs and incubating them because,‭ ‬rightly,‭ ‬or wrongly,‭ ‬my feeling is chicks need mums and dads.‭ ‬I should point out that this‭ ‬feeling was based entirly on zero evidence and minimal experience.... I realise that at the right age one may be able to tell the boys from the girls... So,‭ ‬what is the reason people buy chicks when the risks are so high and there are better ways of starting or enlarging a flock?

If one wants to start a flock then a trio of chickens (one rooster & two hens) is the best way to go about it. The biggest pitfall for the unknowing or unwary is unscrupulous "Breeders" pawning off their over the hill hens and roosters as SPRING chickens. This way (depending on breeding) you can have your own cockerels and pullets that were raised in whatever style it is that your think suits chickens best.

However if you want high production hens then you will need to settle for chicks hatched in an incubator or "Iron Hen" because all highly productive hens do not set or ever get into a mothering frame of mind.