Why Do People Buy Live Chicks From Breeders and Farm Stores‭?

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Where to even begin? Do I even want to? In my opinion most of this is personal opinion and personal preference. We are all unique. We keep chickens for different goals in different climates in different set-ups, with different restrictions, various flock make-ups, and have different experiences. It stands to reason we are not all going to follow the same practices. I don't feel like anyone that does something different from me is wrong, they are just different.

Now to try to offer my opinion on some of your specific comments and questions. It looks like it is starting to get personal and may be closed soon.

Some people tend to think that every hatchery or every breeder are identical. That's not even close to correct. Just n the USA each hatchery has its own people managing it and working there. They have different facilities and different business plans. I can think of one that has a history of health problems. I can think of several that haven't had any disease or parasite problems for decades. Some hatcheries keep their own flocks, some contract out to independent contractors for hatching eggs, some do both. Typically the eggs go to a cleaning/sanitizing facility before they are taken into the incubation/hatching facility which is thoroughly sterilized between hatches. They also typically test their flocks for any diseases that can be passed down trough the eggs, there aren't many. You can come up with your own definition of safe, but I can't come up with a safer way to avoid bringing disease or parasite into my flock than getting chicks from a reputable USA hatchery that has been around a few decades with no history of problems.

Breeders come in all kinds. Some breed for show, some for production. Some take hatchery birds and mate them with no specific goal in mind. Some are trying to to create a certain chicken that may not yet exist. Some practice tremendous biosecurity, some don't know what it means. To me just the term breeder doesn't say a lot.

I have had somewhere around a total of 75 to 80 chicks shipped from three different hatcheries. All those chicks arrived alive. One died a couple of days later, but the way I look at it some are just not meant to make it. I raised those chicks in a brooder and integrated them into my flock. The first batch started my flock. I regularly hatch one or two batches in my incubator a year and raise them the same way. I typically have two to four broody hens hatch and raise chicks with my flock. I've never lost a chick to another adult flock member. I occasionally lose one to a predator, usually a snake, but that's almost always chicks with a broody hen. By the time I let the chicks out of the brooder they are too big for most of the local snakes to eat. I don't lose them to disease either. There are techniques to manage that. I believe you said you had bad luck with disease and predators when you tried brooder raised chicks. Them dying of disease may have more to do with your technique than them being brooder-raised.

Some people would be horrified that you let your chickens free range. They feel that chickens should be locked up safely in a predator proof coop and run. Different personal opinions. I'm not going to condemn you for free ranging even if you occasionally lose a chicken to predators. That is your choice and the price you are willing to pay. My parents free ranged their chickens when I grew up and had very few predator problems, which they managed. Dad was a great shot. I free ranged until I started consistently started losing chickens by the handful from people dropping dogs off in the country.

In my opinion a baby chick needs food, water, appropriate protection for the environment, and appropriate protection from predators. What is appropriate depends a lot on your definition. That need can be provided by a brooder or a broody hen. I started my flock with chicks from a hatchery. As they grew up they acted like chickens. No adult chickens around, it was all instinct. I prefer a broody hen because she does all the work. She takes practically all the stress and labor from me. I personally don't see making my life harder than it has to be a good thing, especially when it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

That's probably enough this morning.
 
Seriously. I agree with the majority of what you’re saying. You’re never going to convince people to do things your way though. Space and time may not allow for it.
If we all believed this the world will never change.:)
I have convinced some people to do it my way. The articles I've written and the responses prove this.
Sure, it's a very small minority. Have you read them?
 
I have read every post in this thread, and in general, agree with most of the posts.
I can not adequately comment on buying hatchery chicks, or letting broody's do the incubating, hatching and raising of chicks.

Reason being I raise pheasants and quail.
Not many hatcheries have the rare pheasants that I raise, same for quail. Therefore, I have to relie on breeders or shipped eggs. I prefer to get eggs and hatch them myself in an incubator. Or if possible to pick up eggs from a breeder. I've been doing it for years and haven't once had a diseased chick hatch. Deformed yes, never diseased. There is risk in shipped eggs but there's also risk in buying hatchery, farm store, and breeder chicks. I have a very strict BIOSECURTY program. When raising gamebirds in particular, it is or should be priority #1. And I try to stress that in alot of the threads I post on because it seems alot of people don't understand or don't think it will happen to them, and skip over the importance of biosecurity, until their asking for help on here for a sick bird.

Another reason for buying shipping eggs is,
most pheasants and quail do not go broody. I have had a few pheasants that did but they couldn't raise them...once they hatched, the hen ignored them, or the cock bird killed them. They would also stop setting half way through...the motherly instincts have been virtually bred out of pheasants. This is the reason I incubate.

Brooding pheasants and quail is completely different than brooding chickens. Pheasants and quail are more prone to overcrowding, takes more room to do so than chickens. Also, some species of pheasant chicks can not be raised together with other species of pheasants, like chickens are...they will kill other chicks not of their species. Most have different habitat and nutritional requirements than chickens. And unlike chickens, pheasants and quail can not be "free ranged". Most of the birds I have raised have become tame, eat out of my hand, if I sit down in the pen, they will walk and climb all over me, so I think they don't need a hen to teach them how to behave as a pheasant, or how to find food, or escape a predator. A few of them haven't had that bred out of them, yet!
I raised chickens 50 plus years ago, show birds. Back then I did the same thing I do today, I incubated my eggs, because of the breeding program I had for my show birds. I occasionally got other birds from breeders that were in my circle of breeders/ showers, for new blood. I knew the quality of the birds and reputation of the breeders, I never had a problem with a diseased bird back then either.
In conclusion, there are some good hatcheries, breeders and then there are the not so much ones, too! It all boils down to what a person thinks what's right for them. How and what they want from their chickens, their experience level, location and financial situation as to whether they go hatchery, farm store, breeder, incubation or the natural way to obtain their goal.
 
If we all believed this the world will never change.:)
I have convinced some people to do it my way. The articles I've written and the responses prove this.
Sure, it's a very small minority. Have you read them?
I have not read them but I’ll add that my list. I’ve read a few about electric fences and trapping though. They were done by an individual with very little experience. I’m skeptical but I will read them.
 
As to be expected, lots of conflicting opinions.
I’ll start with the statement from @KikisGirls
Hatcheries are safe.

@Chickassan doesn’t agree. She is writing about genetic disorders though and not diseases.
I can’t find the posts, but somewhere on this forum there are posts from people who have purchased chicks and eggs from hatcheries and had problems. So, it seems KikisGirls statement may not be as straightforward as the statement implies., Of course, how one defines ‘safe’ makes a difference.
I’m inclined to believe Chickassan. The reason for this is her use of the word notorious. This would imply some degree of common knowledge.
Also afaik she has no vested interest.
There are posts on this forum (I’m not going to spend hours searching for them because we all know they exist) from people who have received broken eggs and dead and/or severely traumatized chicks from hatcheries. I don’t call that safe, at least not for the chick. It may be true that you can obtain a refund which may be important to the buyer but is way down on the list of my concerns. I’m interested in the welfare of the chicks and the prevention of diseases spreading to existing flocks and the prevention of genetic problems.

@Centrachid makes an interesting point that would probably require many pages of heated discussion; At what stage is the chick alive.
Given the research into the importance of egg turning and environmental control in the early stages of embryo development, I can’t see that however many days of random shaking involved in the delivery of eggs by mail being good for the embryo and given the research possibly having long term consequences for the chicken should it hatch.

@Mosey2003 makes some points regarding the complexities of incubating eggs. Clutch hatching rate seems to be the concern here.
How many back yard chicken keepers are really concerned about this (?)
I don’t know how many eggs the ‘average’ chicken keeper orders but I suspect there will be a marked difference between those who want a few chickens as egg layers or pets to keep in a back yard situation and those who intend to breed and sell. If a hen sits here and doesn’t hatch every egg she sits on it’s not a major concern.
A good quality incubator takes care of most of Mosey2003 points. If a person is not prepared to invest in their chickens then perhaps they shouldn’t keep them, or better still if possible, let the hen do it; they do it for free and given the right circumstances make a better overall job from incubation to integration than humans.

This post from Mosey2003 would suggest that he/she sells chickens and is possibly a breeder. Apparently not manic about bio security.
I think there may be a significant number of people who fall into the enthusiast/breeder category who are also ‘not manic about bio security’.

@WVduckchick has been refreshingly honest, with regard to her selling of chickens. However, she writes she lets people handle the chicks.
The advice given about quarantine conditions is quite clear. Any contact is a risk.
@Kessel23 mentions the difficulties encountered by first time hatchers from incubators. There seems to be a general concern about cost. The notion that keeping chickens is any less costly, or requires any less learning and responsibility is in my view false and in the long term harmful to chicken welfare. Cheap and easily replaceable if things go wrong is not an attitude I believe responsible chicken enthusiasts should be promoting.
Proper care as recommended by the more responsible contributors on this site and others is time consuming and expensive. I have a chapter in the book I’m writing about the true cost of responsible chicken care based on the amount of money (it includes time) necessary to achieve this. The chickens here, despite being free range are expensive to keep.
The main concern in Kessel23 post is the distress and inconvenience to the human. It’s not a view I have any sympathy with.

How does saying that taking a cheaper route is the more popular choice have anything to do with proper care? You do not have to drop $100 on an incubator to be a responsible chicken keeper, stop gate keeping. Also, I never said that chicken keeping was less expensive or required less learning than incubating eggs, I said that incubating adds to the cost and adds to the researching. If 2 people decided to start chicken keeping and one decided to incubate eggs and the other decided to buy chicks. The one who decided to incubate would spend more money and time than the chick buyer because he would have to research and buy incubation supplies and the chick buyer would get to skip that step.
 
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I've sold grown out pullets and hens before. I had a women who tried to get me to sell for below what it cost me to feed the bird and she acted like I was crazy to ask for more. So if the subject comes up I like to point out that buyers aren't just paying for the price of a chick plus the cost of feed.
Well, if it makes you feel better, I paid $17 each for my 8 wk old pullets. I had no frame of reference at the time, so I just paid it and took my girls. 2 yrs later, I think I got a very good deal, not because others may have been charging more at the time, (I really don't know), but because I now have a sense of the cost of housing and feeding, and most important, the time and energy involved. Day in and day out.
 
With all due respect, I have read every post in this thread, and I think it is a successful thread. I, for one, have been very interested in the variety of opinions and methods of acquiring and raising chicks.
I also agree with @Shadrach that in a PERFECT world, breeding chickens more naturally, is better for the chickens. However, obviously, it is not a perfect world, and many of us, myself included, want and need something different from our chickens. In his situation, chickens that brood and raise chicks in a flock, sub flock, tribe, whatever, works in the chicken's favor. For myself, the LAST thing I want is a hen going broody, it would not be a healthy situation for a bird that will never, ever hatch and raise chicks. There is a place for hens that still know how to raise their own, AND a place for hens that wouldn't bother.
You are both entitled to your opinions, and that's all they are, so play nice. please. I for one, don't want this thread to deteriorate into name calling, I'm enjoying it. My guess, based on the number of posts, it that others are too. Ok, done with the lecture.
 
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I'm pretty sure they bring your chicks up to the front store area, they're not going to let people off the street walk into the actual chick/egg/breeder areas.
Metzer Farms is like this. Front desk only, not farm tours, no handling of babies.
 
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UK: 94,000 square miles

USA: 3,800,000 square miles

U.S. Cities are Home to 62.7 Percent of the U.S. Population, but Comprise Just 3.5 Percent of Land Area.

I don't think there is a chicken craze. Maybe a revival of sorts that has been happening for 50 years. A lot of chicken breeds would be extinct now if it hadn't. Most people I know don't keep chickens and don't desire to, and I live in a farming community. You have to drive hours just to find a specific breed or line, if you can get there in time to get any. That's why people in the US buy shipped hatching eggs and order from hatcheries.
Most birds are raised by companies for eggs or meat. All big hatcheries and growers have federal oversight, not to mention best practices produce best profits. I can guarantee you that their egg and bird conditions are as good or better than anything you can provide.

  • 35 federally inspected companies are involved in the business of raising, processing and marketing chickens on a “vertically integrated” basis – that is, the company is able to ensure quality at each step of the process.
  • About 25,000 family farmers have production contracts with the companies. Approximately 95 percent of broiler chickens are produced on these farms, with the remaining 5 percent raised on company-owned farms.
  • In 2017, almost 9 billion broiler chickens, weighing over 55 billion pounds, liveweight, were produced. More than 41 billion pounds of chicken product was marketed, measured on a ready-to-cook basis.
  • The United States has the largest broiler chicken industry in the world with about 16.5 percent of production exported to other countries in 2017.
  • The top 3 export destinations (value) in 2017 were Mexico, Canada and Hong Kong.
  • Americans consume more chicken than anyone else in the world – more than 92 pounds per capita in 2017 – the number one protein consumed in the United States.
  • The top 5 broiler producing states are: Georgia, Arkansas, Alabama, North Carolina and Mississippi.
Basic economic measurements include:
Number of slaughter/evisceration plants 180
Number of workers directly employed 280,800
Number of workers indirectly employed 1,339,900
Number of family farms growing broilers and/or producing hatching eggs 30,000
Amount of corn used for broiler and breeder feed More than 1.2 billion bushels
Amount of soybean (meal component) used for
Broiler and breeder feed More than 500 million bushels
Amount of mixed feed used 59 million tons
Wholesale value of shipments of industry $65 billion
Consumer expenditures for chicken $95 billion
 
Where to even begin? Do I even want to? In my opinion most of this is personal opinion and personal preference. We are all unique. We keep chickens for different goals in different climates in different set-ups, with different restrictions, various flock make-ups, and have different experiences. It stands to reason we are not all going to follow the same practices. I don't feel like anyone that does something different from me is wrong, they are just different.

Now to try to offer my opinion on some of your specific comments and questions. It looks like it is starting to get personal and may be closed soon.

Some people tend to think that every hatchery or every breeder are identical. That's not even close to correct. Just n the USA each hatchery has its own people managing it and working there. They have different facilities and different business plans. I can think of one that has a history of health problems. I can think of several that haven't had any disease or parasite problems for decades. Some hatcheries keep their own flocks, some contract out to independent contractors for hatching eggs, some do both. Typically the eggs go to a cleaning/sanitizing facility before they are taken into the incubation/hatching facility which is thoroughly sterilized between hatches. They also typically test their flocks for any diseases that can be passed down trough the eggs, there aren't many. You can come up with your own definition of safe, but I can't come up with a safer way to avoid bringing disease or parasite into my flock than getting chicks from a reputable USA hatchery that has been around a few decades with no history of problems.

Breeders come in all kinds. Some breed for show, some for production. Some take hatchery birds and mate them with no specific goal in mind. Some are trying to to create a certain chicken that may not yet exist. Some practice tremendous biosecurity, some don't know what it means. To me just the term breeder doesn't say a lot.

I have had somewhere around a total of 75 to 80 chicks shipped from three different hatcheries. All those chicks arrived alive. One died a couple of days later, but the way I look at it some are just not meant to make it. I raised those chicks in a brooder and integrated them into my flock. The first batch started my flock. I regularly hatch one or two batches in my incubator a year and raise them the same way. I typically have two to four broody hens hatch and raise chicks with my flock. I've never lost a chick to another adult flock member. I occasionally lose one to a predator, usually a snake, but that's almost always chicks with a broody hen. By the time I let the chicks out of the brooder they are too big for most of the local snakes to eat. I don't lose them to disease either. There are techniques to manage that. I believe you said you had bad luck with disease and predators when you tried brooder raised chicks. Them dying of disease may have more to do with your technique than them being brooder-raised.

Some people would be horrified that you let your chickens free range. They feel that chickens should be locked up safely in a predator proof coop and run. Different personal opinions. I'm not going to condemn you for free ranging even if you occasionally lose a chicken to predators. That is your choice and the price you are willing to pay. My parents free ranged their chickens when I grew up and had very few predator problems, which they managed. Dad was a great shot. I free ranged until I started consistently started losing chickens by the handful from people dropping dogs off in the country.

In my opinion a baby chick needs food, water, appropriate protection for the environment, and appropriate protection from predators. What is appropriate depends a lot on your definition. That need can be provided by a brooder or a broody hen. I started my flock with chicks from a hatchery. As they grew up they acted like chickens. No adult chickens around, it was all instinct. I prefer a broody hen because she does all the work. She takes practically all the stress and labor from me. I personally don't see making my life harder than it has to be a good thing, especially when it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

That's probably enough this morning.
Where to even begin? Do I even want to? In my opinion most of this is personal opinion and personal preference. We are all unique. We keep chickens for different goals in different climates in different set-ups, with different restrictions, various flock make-ups, and have different experiences. It stands to reason we are not all going to follow the same practices. I don't feel like anyone that does something different from me is wrong, they are just different.

Now to try to offer my opinion on some of your specific comments and questions. It looks like it is starting to get personal and may be closed soon.

Some people tend to think that every hatchery or every breeder are identical. That's not even close to correct. Just n the USA each hatchery has its own people managing it and working there. They have different facilities and different business plans. I can think of one that has a history of health problems. I can think of several that haven't had any disease or parasite problems for decades. Some hatcheries keep their own flocks, some contract out to independent contractors for hatching eggs, some do both. Typically the eggs go to a cleaning/sanitizing facility before they are taken into the incubation/hatching facility which is thoroughly sterilized between hatches. They also typically test their flocks for any diseases that can be passed down trough the eggs, there aren't many. You can come up with your own definition of safe, but I can't come up with a safer way to avoid bringing disease or parasite into my flock than getting chicks from a reputable USA hatchery that has been around a few decades with no history of problems.

Breeders come in all kinds. Some breed for show, some for production. Some take hatchery birds and mate them with no specific goal in mind. Some are trying to to create a certain chicken that may not yet exist. Some practice tremendous biosecurity, some don't know what it means. To me just the term breeder doesn't say a lot.

I have had somewhere around a total of 75 to 80 chicks shipped from three different hatcheries. All those chicks arrived alive. One died a couple of days later, but the way I look at it some are just not meant to make it. I raised those chicks in a brooder and integrated them into my flock. The first batch started my flock. I regularly hatch one or two batches in my incubator a year and raise them the same way. I typically have two to four broody hens hatch and raise chicks with my flock. I've never lost a chick to another adult flock member. I occasionally lose one to a predator, usually a snake, but that's almost always chicks with a broody hen. By the time I let the chicks out of the brooder they are too big for most of the local snakes to eat. I don't lose them to disease either. There are techniques to manage that. I believe you said you had bad luck with disease and predators when you tried brooder raised chicks. Them dying of disease may have more to do with your technique than them being brooder-raised.

Some people would be horrified that you let your chickens free range. They feel that chickens should be locked up safely in a predator proof coop and run. Different personal opinions. I'm not going to condemn you for free ranging even if you occasionally lose a chicken to predators. That is your choice and the price you are willing to pay. My parents free ranged their chickens when I grew up and had very few predator problems, which they managed. Dad was a great shot. I free ranged until I started consistently started losing chickens by the handful from people dropping dogs off in the country.

In my opinion a baby chick needs food, water, appropriate protection for the environment, and appropriate protection from predators. What is appropriate depends a lot on your definition. That need can be provided by a brooder or a broody hen. I started my flock with chicks from a hatchery. As they grew up they acted like chickens. No adult chickens around, it was all instinct. I prefer a broody hen because she does all the work. She takes practically all the stress and labor from me. I personally don't see making my life harder than it has to be a good thing, especially when it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

That's probably enough this morning.
Thanks for the post and hopefully this thread won’t get shut if everyone keeps their cool.
A point.
I inherited the incubator orphans. I do know how to integrate chicks. The people who looked after the chickens before didn’t.
These are not my chickens. I volunteered to take care of them when the neglect and lack of knowledge was causing a degree of suffering.
I’ve lived with these chickens as near as one can without sleeping in their coop, which I have done a few times so I could understand more about their behavior, for almost eight years now. Understandably I get a bit annoyed when people who have probably spent a fraction of that time with their chickens imply I don’t know what I’m talking about and need to learn.
I learn every day, but not from people, I learn from the chickens.
Now I get paid for looking after the animals here; it’s a job,
 

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