Why do some flocks get coccidiosis and others don't if it's everywhere

[Scotty from BI]

This not sarcastic. I am wondering if a third generation flock that is to be raised on a closed environment such as a backyard coop and closed run which has been meticulously kept clean can be fed with non medicated feed from day one. I keep hearing that it is everywhere, but how does it get into such a closed environment? Is it brought in by chicks from the hatchery? This seems unlikely as it is not passed to the egg by the mother Idon't think. If there is no or almost no wild birds like finches, etc. in the fenced in run will it just appear in the droppings of the previous flock if they appear very healthy if the droppings are left on the ground in the rain for example?

Why do some people give non medicated and experience no problems in replacement flocks? I understand the birds actually need to be exposed to cocci to become immune, so if there is a low level in such a run/coop is it better to not give medicated to allow them to become resistant? Or if there is a minimal amount of cocci in a well maintained coop/run and you do give medicated, do you prevent them from getting an immunity?

If you give non medicated and they become sick and you then treat them with high doses of Amprolium, will they then be immune if they recover or does it just make them less resistant and likely to be repeatedly re-infected?

Bottom line, if a coop and run has been meticulously kept clean for previous flocks, is it better to not give medicated or do you just always give it and hope they build resistance?

 

[Folly's place]

There's no one right answer, because different 'backyards' will have different levels of coccidia present in any given year. Warmer climates, wet conditions, and heavier parasite loads in local wild birds matter. Some individuals will be more likely to get very ill, while some flockmates will not be sick. That's just how it works!
Feeding amprolium added chick starter until the babies have been out on the ground and in the coop for a few weeks, will do a good job of preventing actual illness and death, if it would otherwise be a problem.
Some of us have never had issues with coccidiosis, which is wonderful, but never guaranteed to continue forever. Mary

 

[Scotty from BI]

Thanks Mary. I appreciate this and all your posts and responses. One question that comes to mind is, if you are treating with Amprolium in medicated food and there is a low level of cocci in their area, might that prevent them from building immunity or resistance since they will effectively not have any chance to get the parasite which is the only way they can build immunity?

 

[TwoCrows]

This is not easy to answer as every flock and every environment is different.

Coccidiosis is present to some degree, in nearly all warm blooded wild and domesticated animal5. Even our dogs can carry cocci. Now, I am sure there are some squeeky clean lap dogs out there, maybe even a few wild coyotes. But for the most part, cocci is carrired by rabbits, deer, wild birds, elk, wild turkeys, etc... Cocci thus lives in nearly all soil and blows on the wind.

Now, text book speaking, most animals and birds become immune to their environment. So, at low levels, bacterias, viruses, parasites, cocci included can be worked out through an animals or birds immune system safely and the creature continues to thrive.

However, should the level of these things increase all of a sudden due to a lot or rain (increases cocci population) influx of rabbits or wild birds to your yard, adding new birds to your flock that HAVE cocci, even a stripping of the coop and run and an addition on new litter added (should cocci be living in it) will cause even healthy immune birds to get sick from cocci.

I live in New Mexico where we have huge outbreaks of Coccidiosis in our wild bird population. Our soil is loaded with Cocci. To the point of heavy casualties to our migrating birds. And while I keep my coop and run clean enough to operate in, I limit free ranging during known local cocci outbreaks, STILL, without a doubt, I have at least 2 outbreaks a year in all ages of chickens. Its been like this for the past decade.

All this being said, not all birds will contract cocci, even in a very severe outbreak. However some will always be prone. Some birds have immune systems that are on high alert at every moment, others are very slow to react.

Cocci outbreaks aren't as easy as "adult birds become immune ". They do for the most part, but an outbreak is always possible no matter how clean you keep your coop. No matter how much exposure your chicks had, or even if you never free range, adults can still contract Coccidiosis. Especially the young and old.

 

[lazy gardener]

Cocci are in all soils. All chicks will, sooner or later be exposed to the cocci. It is a normal flora in a chicken gut. Only when the cocci become too numerous for the chicken's body to handle it does the bird then become ill. Amprolium is a Thiamine blocker. The cocci organism needs Thiamine in order to reproduce. So, the chick picks up some cocci organisms from the environment. Her body then builds immunity to those organisms, but b/c her gut does not have an ample supply of Thiamine, the cocci can't bloom and cause her to get sick.

Many folks put their chicks on medicated feed. Ideally, while the chick is on medicated feed, she needs to be exposed to soil from the yard she will be living in.

Many other folks, myself included do not use medicated feed. I rely on the natural antibodies that the chick has received from her mother. They are most numerous during the first 2 weeks after hatch. During that time, I give my chicks a plug of sod, and maybe even some soil from my chicken's yard. That soil/sod is loaded with beneficial bacteria and fungi to kick start a healthy gut. A healthy gut = a healthy immune system. Those soils also contain cocci and other pathogens. These bad guys also kick start the chick's immune system. I also use fermented feed, and keep a deep litter in my coop/run. Both help to develop a healthy gut.

 

[Kiki]

There are many many people who have feed medicated feed starting on day one and have had chicks come down with Coccidiosis.
Do not rely on the feed to prevent Coccidiosis.
ALSO...while feeding med feed, if you offer "extra" vitamins you may cancel out the med in the feed all together.
You can read about this here:
http://www.armchairpatriot.com/Home-Vet/Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook [Desk Ed.] 6th ed. - D. Plumb (Blackwell, 2008) WW.pdf

Page 62
Pharmacology/Actions section states:

EXCESSIVE thiamine in a diet can reduce or REVERSE the anticoccidial activity of the drug.

 

[Scotty from BI]

So does that mean that it all comes down to luck. Some birds are just lucky enough to be resistant and have a low enough level of the little buggers in their soil and others not so much. If this is so, then which is better? Give them a healthy starter feed without Amprolium and let em take their chances or block the cocci with a thiamine blocker and less nutritious and less healthy feed in hope that if they are exposed to cocci and kill it off in their body until they are adults that they will still be immune?

 

[Kiki]

Non medicated feed is not less nutritious or less healthy.
I prefer to not use medicated feed too.

Everyone does things differently though.

 

[Scotty from BI]

To be clear I meant should I feed a non medicated feed which does not contain Amprolium which blocks thiamine, a needed nutrient for brain,and growth developement or a medicated feed which is incomplete by definition since it deprives the bird of the vitamin (thiamine) which cocci need to reproduce in the chicks gut? I'm not clear on how birds can take this medication every day for up to 16 weeks of the most formitive period of their lives and not be negatively effected.

 

[Folly's place]

Again, it depends! Those of us who have no issues without medicated chick starter might someday not be so fortunate, and some flocks will have huge losses without it. Having sick/ stunted birds isn't better! Part of having a healthy flock, for those of us raising our own replacements, is selecting breeders who have always been healthy! Nobody who was fragile, sickly, or needing extra TLC (injuries excepted) gets to reproduce here. This helps to ensure that my birds are managing whatever their coccidia load is here too. Mary