Why do some flocks get coccidiosis and others don't if it's everywhere

[Folly's place]

RR has given very good advice! I (respectfully!) disagree with centrarchid's approach; if I knew ahead of time that even occasionally my new chicks were going to have coccidiosis (defined as becoming actually ill) then I'd be feeding medicated chick starter every time, which should drastically reduce the episodes of illness requiring treatment.
I don't feed medicated chick starter, and haven't had illnesses from coccidiosis here, ever. That's no reason for me to get complacent, or suggest that everyone else will do equally well!
I'm also very careful about biosecurity, which for me includes NEVER getting birds from random sources or outside flocks. Baby chicks only! Mary

 

[centrarchid]

RR has given very good advice! I (respectfully!) disagree with centrarchid's approach; if I knew ahead of time that even occasionally my new chicks were going to have coccidiosis (defined as becoming actually ill) then I'd be feeding medicated chick starter every time, which should drastically reduce the episodes of illness requiring treatment.
I don't feed medicated chick starter, and haven't had illnesses from coccidiosis here, ever. That's no reason for me to get complacent, or suggest that everyone else will do equally well!
I'm also very careful about biosecurity, which for me includes NEVER getting birds from random sources or outside flocks. Baby chicks only! Mary

If you were to move from your current location and bring your birds and management system with you, I state with high confidence you would experience health issues and death-loss at a magnitude beyond anything you have had to date.

Once you develop a concern about developing the parasite / pathogen developing resistance, you will also back away from treating prophylacticly. I see so many "bugs" out there that can not longer be treated with medications I have legal access to because so many people have been treating improperly in a manner that selects for resistance. SUPERBUGS are not a figment of someones imagination.

The management system needs to be done according to situation at hand and done in a manner that does does not close options / flexibility in the future.

 

[Folly's place]

So true! Do you select breeding stock with resistance to coccidiosis in mind? Mary

 

[centrarchid]

Yes. It takes time. About 7 years into the selection process which roughly 4 generations. At start, only 1 in 4 chicks would survive without treatment. Now 3 in 4 survive although most still have arrested growth during acclimation. By time selection done, mortalities will be very low and growth slowing will be barely noticeable. American Dominiques sent to my brother in Indiana have no trouble here but have trouble in Indiana.

 

[Folly's place]

Question for centrarchid; have you compared batches of chicks fed medicated chick starter for ten to twelve weeks to batches of chicks only treated if they get sick? Have you done this enough to be able to truly compare both approaches? There's science behind the medicated chick starter; have your experiences, in your environment, been different? Mary

 

[TwoCrows]

Again as I mentioned, every bird has a different immune system. Once soil becomes heavily contaminated with Cocci, your birds will have constant exposure. Birds with strong immune systems will fair better than those with weaker immune systems. If you selectively breed with the hardiest birds in mind, I would think at some point, birds could become fairly resistant to Cocci, however this would take many generations.

 

[centrarchid]

Question for centrarchid; have you compared batches of chicks fed medicated chick starter for ten to twelve weeks to batches of chicks only treated if they get sick? Have you done this enough to be able to truly compare both approaches? There's science behind the medicated chick starter; have your experiences, in your environment, been different? Mary

Chicks that get sick fall behind in growth which would be unacceptable in a commercial setting. Final size at adulthood which requires much more time is not so clear as there is a lot of compensation post-recovery. What most of us do in out backyard / barnyard settings is likely not tolerable for conditions where the science tries to stay. Very little of the med's and nutritional info we operate off of has actually been developed with us in mind. That may be changing.

 

[centrarchid]

Again as I mentioned, every bird has a different immune system. Once soil becomes heavily contaminated with Cocci, your birds will have constant exposure. Birds with strong immune systems will fair better than those with weaker immune systems. If you selectively breed with the hardiest birds in mind, I would think at some point, birds could become fairly resistant to Cocci, however this would take many generations.

It takes a few generations based on what I indicated above. My efforts are not hypothetical and have been done many times by keepers of self-sustaining flocks. It is just that most people do not keep track. People always outsourcing chicks / new birds will not be able to see this.

 

[TwoCrows]

It takes a few generations based on what I indicated above. My efforts are not hypothetical and have been done many times by keepers of self-sustaining flocks. It is just that most people do not keep track. People always outsourcing chicks / new birds will not be able to see this.

I totally believe this. All creatures carry genes from all of their ancestors, not just character traits but of health and resistence to disease. What ever the parent birds are, is perpetuated into their offspring with each generation. A birds blood lines can improve or deteriorate depending on who breeds with who. Starting with quality stock is very important for any breeding program and keeping it "closed", is the best thing you can do for your flock.

 

[Scotty from BI]

so I am back to square one. I suppose the easiest way absent an analysis of my soil at a laboratory is to just medicate and hope that my past practice of keeping a clean coop has kept the cocci to a minimum or prevented it from being present. This seems the lowest risk of having to treat young birds with large doses of medication vs the somewhat minimal risk of stunted development based on all the thousands of people who use medicated with no problems. If nothing else it will let me sleep better. ;-)

I wonder if there is a good comparison of chicks growth or health progress from day one to sixteen weeks between medicated vs non medicated where all other factors are equal. That would be very telling.