Why do some flocks get coccidiosis and others don't if it's everywhere

@Scotty from BI
I say:
Skip the medicated feed and keep an eye on your chicks.
If you notice signs of Coccidiosis, get some "medication" and treat them.

Don't worry too much.
 
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I agree with KikisGirls here, I wouldn't over think this, you will worry yourself to death! If you are worried about cocci, use the medicated feed. If you feel like raising them without it, then don't use it.

BUT...always keep Corid on hand all throughout their lives. Keep an eye on the poop, observe your birds enough that you can spot if "Lucy" is off her feed or "Henry " isn't on his game. Sometimes Cocci has no symptoms, but many times it does depending on what strain is effecting them. You might see blood on the urates only, maybe chunks of blood in the poop itself, sometimes they will pass way too much white urates really staining the butt feathers, some strains cause a lot of mucus in the poop, and in some cases they will develop a slow doughy crop because waste is not moving fast enough out the bird.

So, just keep an eye on them and enjoy them! They may never have a cocci issue so no sense in worrying over it. :-)
 
You have a lot of known conditions with respect to cocci in your setting? Other than that your approach appears well though out.

Your assumption of absence I question. The cocci that infect your birds can come from other animals that are in the immediate vicinity of you setup. The cocci can likely persist in soil for a long time after a previous flock is removed. They can even come in with your outsourced chicks. There is an element of chance to cocci outbreaks so be ready to use something stronger than the medicated feed.

The real key to this is to recognize the earliest signs of cocci infection and react accordingly. My assumption is you will not be doing daily fecal checks. In most instances the chicks will signal something is wrong a day, sometimes two days before they show signs gross changes in feces and overt behavior issues indicating they are cold. It is those first signs I try to be on top of. That increases my confidence in not using medicated feeds as a default. I use non-medicated most of the time but when seeing a particular set signs I change to medicated feed immediately. If birds still having trouble, then more aggressive lacing of drinking water with medication is started. A potential problem with such an approach is that you may need to have more types of feed in storage and be concerned about shelf life of medication.

@KikisGirls and @TwoCrows,

I do not know what further to say. Discussion by many parties here attempted to cover bases well. Ignoring efforts is basically rude, yet common place here when failing to recognize inputs of others. I will effort to point that out hence forth.
 
Two Crows, probably the best advice of this thread which has been an excellent discussion and very informative. Thank you all for your thoughtful, considered responses. My problem is that when it comes to my chickens I do worry and I can't help it, but that's OK because I keep it in perspective and I actually enjoy caring for them and watching to see what they are doing or not doing and trying to make everything as Nice as possible.

So for my final and at least for now (insert laugh here) decision.... I am going to start them on 22% protein
starter organic non-medicated layer for six weeks while they are in the coop, then transition to medicated 18% protein for about a week give or take and conditions permitting let them go into the run and see what happens until about 16 weeks.
 
Two Crows, probably the best advice of this thread which has been an excellent discussion and very informative. Thank you all for your thoughtful, considered responses. My problem is that when it comes to my chickens I do worry and I can't help it, but that's OK because I keep it in perspective and I actually enjoy caring for them and watching to see what they are doing or not doing and trying to make everything as Nice as possible.

So for my final and at least for now (insert laugh here) decision.... I am going to start them on 22% protein
starter organic non-medicated layer for six weeks while they are in the coop, then transition to medicated 18% protein for about a week give or take and conditions permitting let them go into the run and see what happens until about 16 weeks.
Thank you.
 
Two Crows, probably the best advice of this thread which has been an excellent discussion and very informative. Thank you all for your thoughtful, considered responses. My problem is that when it comes to my chickens I do worry and I can't help it, but that's OK because I keep it in perspective and I actually enjoy caring for them and watching to see what they are doing or not doing and trying to make everything as Nice as possible.

So for my final and at least for now (insert laugh here) decision.... I am going to start them on 22% protein
starter organic non-medicated layer for six weeks while they are in the coop, then transition to medicated 18% protein for about a week give or take and conditions permitting let them go into the run and see what happens until about 16 weeks.

Thanks! I am a worry wart as well, part of my nature. LOL I don't like to see others suffer with worry though, I know how hard it is on the body, mind and spirit!

Nothings beats hands on experience with birds and if and when they do get sick, a person can learn an awful lot about their flock and how to be a better steward to them. We can all stand back here and tell you how it is and works, but until you experience it for yourself, you can never fully grasp what is going on and how to treat your flock. Over time your flock will tell you what they need if you only learn their language. Keeping poultry is a fun journey, that is for sure. Enjoy yours! :)
 
Thanks! I am a worry wart as well, part of my nature. LOL I don't like to see others suffer with worry though, I know how hard it is on the body, mind and spirit!

Nothings beats hands on experience with birds and if and when they do get sick, a person can learn an awful lot about their flock and how to be a better steward to them. We can all stand back here and tell you how it is and works, but until you experience it for yourself, you can never fully grasp what is going on and how to treat your flock. Over time your flock will tell you what they need if you only learn their language. Keeping poultry is a fun journey, that is for sure. Enjoy yours! :)
:goodpost:
 
Coccidiosis is caused by the numbers of certain protozoa in the chicken’s digestive tract getting out of hand. There are different strains of those protozoa, each strain colonizes a specific portion of the digestive tract. Some attack more sensitive areas so they are more dangerous. Some protozoa in the digestive tract are good, it helps the chicken develop immunity to that specific strain, it’s when the numbers get out of hand that the chicken gets sick. If the chicken is exposed to that strain of protozoa for two to three weeks they develop an immunity to it but that does not give them immunity to any different strain.

The life cycle of that protozoa is that the bugs lay “eggs” (not true eggs but close enough for this discussion) in the chicken’s gut. It passes out the rear end. It needs about two days in warm moist soil, especially soil with poop in it, to develop enough so it can “hatch”. The chicken eats it when foraging and it develops inside the chicken. That’s a big reason that wet brooders, coops, and runs are dangerous, those cocci protozoa thrive in those conditions. The chicken eats enough so that the number gets out of hand. A dry brooder, coop, or run helps prevent the numbers getting out of hand.

All strains of Coccidiosis protozoa are not present in all soil. Some won’t have any of these protozoa, some can have several different strains. Coccidiosis is generally more of a problem in warm moist areas like the Southeast of the US. That doesn’t mean it can’t be present in a cool dry area, just that it is more likely to be present in warm moist areas. Areas around a waterer can stay moist.

I always suggest you check the label to see what medication is in your medicated feed. It’s almost always Amprolium but almost always does not mean each and every time. If it’s not only Amprolium but is something else or something else plus Amprolium, what I’m going to say about Amprolium alone does not apply.

Amprolium in the dosage in medicated feed does not prevent all the protozoa from reproducing. It greatly inhibits the ability of that protozoa to reproduce. It allows enough to reproduce so there is a constant supply so the chicken can develop the immunity it needs. If you have a wet brooder, coop, or run and feed medicated feed it is still possible for the chicken to get Coccidiosis even if you are feeding medicated feed. But medicated feed with Amprolium greatly improves your odds. That’s still not an excuse for a wet brooder, coop, or run.

What often happens is that chicks are fed medicated feed while they are in the brooder but have never been exposed to the protozoa that causes Coccidiosis. When they hit the ground and are first exposed to that protozoa the medicated feed is stopped just when it is needed the most.

I personally do not use medicated feed. I keep the brooder very dry and introduce dirt from the run to the chicks as soon as they learn to eat their regular food, usually Day 2 or 3 in the brooder. I feed them more dirt every three or four days to give them a steady supply of that protozoa. By the time they hit the ground they have developed the immunity they need.

There is nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed. It will not hurt your chicks. If you have a history of Coccidiosis it is probably a really good thing to do. But if they have not been introduced to the protozoa it does no good.

Thank you for this very easy to understand explanation!:D
 
Another thing I have learned as I dig deeper into the subject is that if one goes too far in the other direction and feeds medicated while at the same time cleaning fastidiously and keeping everything bone dry creating a sterile environment, your chicken may not have an opportunity to build resistance since all organisms are either absent or killed prior to being absorbed by the chicken making it difficult for her as an adult to deal with an outbreak should one occur.

So if there is likely to be coccidiosis in your soil in large amounts, give medicated so the chicken is not overwhelmed. If your small flock and their environment have conditions which are likely to result in low levels of coccidiosis, don't feed medicated and allow your chickens to have whatever exposure they may to achieve resistance as an adult.

In my case, I feel that the risk in the coop, where they will live exclusively for 6 weeks is very low risk so I will feed organic non medicated. The run is the bigger question. 2/3's of the run is covered and dry always. While 1/3 is uncovered and gets wet for 8 months of the year. The soil is loamy so it never turns to mud. I have in the past followed the chickens around with a poop scooper and kept the area mostly poop free. In five years I have only seen one wild bird fly in, a finch, which panicked and died when it flew into a wall trying to get out. Obviously there will still be some poop that gets mixed into the soil and it probably doesn't take much to plant the seed of a colony of cocci if as some say it is everywhere. So at about 6 weeks, I will decide whether to change to medicated or continue with organic.

Thanks for all your input. It has been very helpful and informative.
 

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