Why do some say to leave mild bumblefoot alone?

[addctd2plnts]

If it's bad enough that something may be under the scab, as a human surgeon, (and a person who worked for vets for 8 years", you have to open it up and remove all necrotic tissue. That's the only way the body can then fight the infection. We see internal medicine doctors try to use only antibiotics and the infection will get worse. Yet 24 hours after I drain them and debride all dead tissue to healthy tissue, and give the correct antibiotics, the person is remarkably better. Whether it's people or animals, the principle is the same. The body can't fight an infection with a pus pocket or dead tissue. If you want to flush an infected spot, I highly recommend Hibiclens. It's what we use to scrub before surgeries. I've healed huge diabetic ulcers with it by soaking 2x/day for 10 minutes. If you can't soak, gently rub it on the area for 5 minutes. It kills all bacteria, fungus and yeast for a full 24 hours after a 10 minute application, but don't wash it with anything else in between. You can apply an antibacterial cream or ointment.

 

[Cecisflock]

How does a chicken get bumble foot anyway

 

[Doristheoldhen]

Hi All, I've read all your posts to help me decide what to do about one of my girls. She's been lame, limping and getting slightly worse. I think I can see a very small scab appearing so I'm ordering Epsom salts and vetacyn today. I live in the Highlands of Scotland and we are currently getting extremely wet weather, their coop is cleaned and sanitised regularly but outside is very muddy etc plus 20 chickens u can imagine. So what I'm asking is 2 things firstly should I bring her in for however long it takes to treat and secondly if treating with soaking/cleaning and the vetacyn doesn't clear it up, what 'tools' are best for the surgery element please? Il only do this if she continues getting worse as I hate causing pain but she's obviously suffering. Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[Doristheoldhen]

Hi All, I've read all your posts to help me decide what to do about one of my girls. She's been lame, limping and getting slightly worse. I think I can see a very small scab appearing so I'm ordering Epsom salts and vetacyn today. I live in the Highlands of Scotland and we are currently getting extremely wet weather, their coop is cleaned and sanitised regularly but outside is very muddy etc plus 20 chickens u can imagine. So what I'm asking is 2 things firstly should I bring her in for however long it takes to treat and secondly if treating with soaking/cleaning and the vetacyn doesn't clear it up, what 'tools' are best for the surgery element please? Il only do this if she continues getting worse as I hate causing pain but she's obviously suffering. Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[maryn7]

I don't believe there is any such thing as "mild" bumblefoot. Bumblefoot, by definition is an infected wound, as you're aware. If there is a flat thin scab on a foot pad with no swelling, redness, or heavy scab, it's likely not infected, therefore not bumblefoot.

When I encounter a flat thin scab, I will not do anything more than squirt some Vetericyn on it for a few days. That's usually enough to encourage it to heal quickly and to discourage bacteria. I don't even bother bandaging it. It's never developed into bumblefoot when I've treated it in that manner.

Sorry to reply to an old threat @azygous, but I've got a hen who has just one black flat scab on one foot - no swelling - and even less than that on the other. I did notice a very slight limp on the foot that has the scab, which is what made me look.

At the moment, it seems like the Epsom salts treatment would be worse than what she's got going on. So, I'm just grabbing her twice a day and spraying Vetericyn on it (started last night). Then I just kind of hang on to her for a minute to let it gel up and turn her loose on the grass.

Without the bandaging, is it enough to just let it hang out on the surface a bit before I'm sure a lot of it is wiped away by the grass? And what does 'successfully avoided bumblefoot" look like? Thanks (this bird gets everything.)

 

[azygous]

What I usually do when I see a small flat black scab on a foot, is I will soak and debride the scab. Debriding is a medical wound treatment where all dead tissue is removed in order for new tissue to grow. It's sort of like pruning a tree of dead limbs to promote new healthy growth.

Removing a flat scab where the wound isn't swollen and doesn't contain pus doesn't require any additional surgery since there is no pus signally infection to remove. By removing a flat scab that has begun to heal, you are assuring no bacteria is gathering under the initial scab that formed before you could attend to the wound. It's good solid wound care to do this.

Sometimes, if the flat scab is obviously very thin, I leave it alone and just spray Vetericyn on it for a few days.

 

[maryn7]

Thanks! Alright - I think I'll do the soak on the one that's clearly a scab and see what's up with the other at the same time.

But you don't worry about losing the effectiveness of the Vetericyn without wrapping?

 

[azygous]

You would need to wrap any wound on the foot that is open and wet to keep out dirt.

With a very superficial wound, a thin scab, spraying Vetericyn on it two or three times a day will be sufficient to keep bacteria low to prevent infection. It kills bacteria each time you spray and also it prevents the tissue from becoming inflamed.

 

[maryn7]

Great- thank you for this level of detail. Appreciated.

 

[Marypc]

I've seen a few times on threads where people will advise to leave early bumblefoot alone. Having dealt with bumblefoot myself twice but am obviously not super experienced, I am confused me as to why you would leave it alone. Here's my personal reasoning:

Bumblefoot is a bacterial infection that can be comprised of E. Coli, Pseudomonas, and, most notably, Staphylococcus. As far as I know, these can be pretty nasty bacteria that when left untreated, can get a lot worse. I've seen people suggest that if there's no reddening or swelling, to not do anything. But why would you wait for that to happen? The longer you wait, the harder it will be for the infection to be eradicated, especially since most people treat at home. I'm sure sometimes it will simply go away- in fact I've seen people say it happened with their chickens and their experiences are valid- but based on my personal experience I'd be afraid of waiting to find out.

I had a hen who had very early bumblefoot. No reddening, no swelling, nothing but the little scab that didn't seem that deep or very fully formed. It really didn't seem that concerning at all.
View attachment 2585687

I did not treat it for a few days while I awaited some topical antibiotics to come in the mail (I was dealing with another chicken with more severe bumblefoot so I figured I'd get some stronger stuff). In just 3 days, it had progressed to this. Now, that's still not bad at all and was easy to treat, but how fast it got worse is something to be noted.
View attachment 2585689

I tried to get away with treating it non-invasively to save her some unnecessary pain since it was so mild, but realized I wasn't making very good progress and ended up removing the scab. At this point, taking the scab off and treating it was causing more pain and stress than leaving it alone. However, if I did nothing, she probably would be in more pain and stress from the infection getting worse down the road, and it would be more painful to treat. Her bumblefoot is gone, has stayed gone so far, and she is happily bounding in the yard. The other hen I mentioned, her bumblefoot was a lot worse. It got so bad because I didn't do anything for a good while (long story short, she had feet problems that made her bumblefoot a bit hard to recognize, especially since this was my first case). Due to me waiting, her infection got too bad and after trying my hardest to treat her for months with what I had and no vet care, I could not keep the infection away and decided to put her out of her misery.

I'm sure people who have advised to leave bumblefoot alone will read this, and I want to say that I'm not trying to call you out or tell you you're wrong or anything like that. I guess I just want to start a conversation. I'm definitely not an expert on bumblefoot having only treated it twice. I want to learn more about this, especially since this advice seems to be a lot different than what's commonly suggested. If I can get away with not having to treat bumblefoot in the future I'm all for it! But infections are no joke and I don't want to take any risks.

Thank you for any experiences and/or info!

I’m looking at how clean that foot is and am wondering if your messing with it and cleaning it didn’t open it up for infection. I treated a bumblefoot on my roo last week, soaked, dug the thing out and dressed. It was visibly bothering him. While I had him on his back I looked at the other foot. There was an obvious scar of one the same size. I’ve also had hens that I planned to treat and forgot about that had healed up on their own. At this point, I’m thinking that if it isn’t bothering them, I will leave it alone.