why do there have to be so many different dog-training systems? (rant)

[welsummerchicks]

I just don't think the leg aids are really the same, but they are there, jockeys use their legs to signal the horse, but let's face it, it's a pretty simple, straightforward job they're asking the horse to do - leg equals run faster or something else will follow. Not terribly different in principle from any other horse training, though.

I think your point is that some kinds of dog training, and hence some methods, just don't fit into certain situations, or just don't apply, aren't needed, etc.

Ehhhhh...I dunno about that, really. I think people under-estimate what level of obedience and training dogs really need, just to be pets.

I've seen dogs that were trained so that they behaved very nicely in the house, in their routine, in familiar situations...sort of...most of the time. But when it really counted - the dog did not obey, and it wound up badly injured or dead.

I learned my lesson. My 'well trained' dog barked at someone when we were hiking in an isolated area, I called, the dog did not respond immediately - and the person he barked at, took out a gun to shoot the dog. We can argue all day that the person was not entitled to do that, or right, or that that was mean and unfair - the dog would still be dead.

I knew a gal who had a national show winner - she was always supremely confident in her training skills and the dog was trained beautifully for the breed arena.

And one day, the dog got loose as she was leading it into the house, with just her fingers through the collar ring.

It ran - she called - it ran on - it ran across the road, and it finally responded to her call - and was run over as it came back across the road, to the third or fourth command, after considerably delay.

So while I get your point, that some types of training just aren't necessary for all dogs - I think what IS really necessary is extremely underestimated - the majority of the time.

 

[FourPawz]

Ehhhhh...I dunno about that, really. I think people under-estimate what level of obedience and training dogs really need, just to be pets.

I've seen dogs that were trained so that they behaved very nicely in the house, in their routine, in familiar situations...sort of...most of the time. But when it really counted - the dog did not obey, and it wound up badly injured or dead.

You know, by posting the above, perhaps you just saved a dog's life (or a number of dogs') lives. Dogs are situational learners. They need to learn in a wide variety of environments and with a wider variety of distractions to be really, truly trained.​

 

[welsummerchicks]

Well the life I save definitely won't be my own - any time I emphasize obedience here I get my teeth kicked in and treated like a member of the SS, AND told that I 'just don't understand dogs and how they really should be trained and how different different dogs are', am incapable of understanding how animals and people 'bond', etc.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
1000% agree!

Pat

 

[welsummerchicks]

I'll stick my neck out even further and say that most of the problems people seem to have with race horses - don't really appear to start at the race track - i see horses there all the time, walking, trotting, cantering, picking up both leads, taking a good contact with the bit, not spooking at noises, turning well, stopping obediently...I think a lot of the problems start after the track...I certainly see some that have problems at the track and they are definitely the ones that are more difficult to teach a new job.

I'd say that goes for dogs too - I think a lot of problems are created over time because people aren't willing to adjust and learn new methods - they stick with the same reasoning and technique despite it not working.

Often this is due to being too devoted to one approach. But SOMETIMES - people don't even realize they HAVE an 'approach'!!!

But whether it's a training philosophy type straightjacket or just habit, they don't realize how the dog is interpreting what they are doing.

Habits are funny. We're rarely aware of them. Many people don't realize their whole posture and method is confusing or terrifying the dog, or that it's making the dog think he's just been given the permission to be lord of all he surveys!!!

Once I got asked to go over and evaluate a dog for a man who lived with his family and had just bought the family a beautiful young male Fox Terrier. The dog was about 16 weeks old, gorgeous, perfect structure, coat - really exceptional.

I took this dog and set him on my lap, and the entire family just sat there staring at me with their mouths hanging open. After a few moments there was a very general murmur among the family members - they were clearly shocked by SOMETHING, but what, I had no idea. They all looked as if they'd seen a ghost.

Finally the mom spoke and said, 'how...how did you DO that?'

I said, 'Do what?'

'Get him to sit on your lap like that'.

I was absolutely dumbfounded. 'Sit on my lap like how?'

'Like...like THAT', and several family members raised their hands and just....pointed.....

The dog was just sitting there, very calm, and I wasn't even holding onto him. I just blocked him very slightly for a split second and he seemed to say, 'Well! If you'd like me to stay here, I'd be perfectly happy to'.

Honest to gosh it was one of the nicest dogs I ever put a hand on. He was the most relaxed, easy, self confident animal - very willing to sit quietly if asked despite being so young and having no training. JUST. SO. EASY.

These folks were so upset by this dog they wanted to get rid of him. I have to admit I would have LOVED to have this dog for obedience work. I would have felt like I had robbed a bank competing this dog.

I have to admit that I was shocked to hear how 'difficult' this dog was and what a holy terror. Restless, constantly in motion and never 'listening'. Listening? To what? That completely baffled me. The dog had never been taught a single command. What was he going to be 'listening' TO?

I admit it took me a little while to figure out what in the world was going on - and that time I did NOT have the flu, lol. But it simply never occured to me that this could happen to such an extreme, to a whole room full of people.

Evidently, they were so accustomed to an older dog that they had for many years, that they were expecting this pup to act exactly like their elderly, sick dog, RIP.

THAT is how powerful our habits and preconceptions are.

 

[scbatz33]

Why are there so many different diets out there? Same reason - partly money....what's the new "in" thing, latest "fad". But also because not every dog learns the same way, not every dog has the same behavioral problems and not every owner is equipt to deal with their dogs alike.

Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

 

[FourPawz]

One of the absolute best ways to evaluate a training system is to look at the instructor's dog and how well it performs. In my area, there is a trainer who has their own business. That person's dog is dog aggressive, sloppy in its responses and just is generally a poor performer. Yet people listen to and pay for the trainer's advice to sit there and wait until the dog sits, then click and treat.

Whatever.