Why do they pip at the wrong end?

[Bill 101]

Stop feeding scratch. Layer feed is normally around 16% protein. Scratch is around 8%. The chickens will eat the scratch before eating the layer feed because its like candy for them. What that does is dilute the protein level of the layer feed so you are getting a lower overall protein level. It doesn't hurt to feed a higher protein level feed if your going to hatch the eggs. a higher protein level insures there is sufficient levels of nutrients in the eggs which improves the hatchability/livability of the chicks. Your chickens do not need Scratch. It may make you feel better to see them all come-a-run'in. when you throw out the scratch, but it really doesn't help the chicken. I'd knock off the other treats too.

 

[TAMMACLEAN]

I feed them fermented feed. It's mostly layer feed with some scratch and some BOSS mixed in. Sometimes when it's cold I throw them some scratch to keep them busy and warm. They are in a big covered run. To much snow on the ground for them to free range right now.

I ended up opening the last dozen eggs and every last one had its head down towards the small end. Very odd. Most of them had a little yolk left to absorb but almost all were fully formed. Very sad. I'm thinking that maybe an automatic turner might work?? It's either that or there is something wrong with my chickens. I have hatched out eggs I've purchased before. Except the ones that I bought in January. That was do to a humidity issue.

Well I have more silkie eggs coming in April so I will add a few of my eggs to them and see what happens.

 

[Bill 101]

When you say their heads were down toward the small end, their beak was pointed up toward the shell, right????? Normal position for chicks.
I think you still have a humidity issue
I'd still stop the scratch. Keep protein levels as high as possible with what your feeding (without scratch)

 

[TAMMACLEAN]

Actually their beeks were under the wings. When I opened some of the eggs it took a few seconds to even find their beaks. It was just really odd that every egg did the same thing.

What would you recommend for humidity?
This is what I have for an incubator.

There is usually a bowl of water and a hygrometer in there as well.

 

[sumi]

I hear people had very good results with the dry hatch incubation method. Give it a try for the next hatch?

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/how-to-incubate-hatch-eggs-using-the-dry-incubation-method

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Last year I hatched chicks in my homemade incubator with pretty much no problems. This year I lost all but 1 of 50 eggs. I did have some humidity issues the first time. Now that's all fixed. Humidity is where it should be and in on day 22. About 2 dozen eggs in and they all looked good on day 18. Even took a quick candle this morning to make sure they were okay and the couple I grabbed looked good. Could see them trying to pip. Now my problem is 3 have pipped but they have ALL pipped at the wrong end!! I had one last time do this too. I had them in egg cartons but took them out when I saw the first one. Any idea why they do this?? I'm pretty sure one if them won't make it because I see some blood. It's just really odd.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/hatching-eggs-101 I see Sumi has already got ya covered with the link.... this is from the article

​

Oh NO!​

It PIPPED the WRONG END!​

MALPOSITIONS
It is common to lose about 1-2% of the chicks due to deformities and malpositions. Deformities occur during embryo development, while malpositions occur the last week of incubation. Malpositioned embryos are unable to pip the eggshell and escape due to improper positioning within the egg. The chicks can have difficulty positioning for pipping, absorbing the yolk sac, or changing from embryo to chick breathing air. The majority of malpositioned embryos that have died in the shell probably resulted from exhaustion and/or lack of oxygen. One GOOD thing to remember is that SOME malpositions are Lethal and some are not! Occasionally, malpositioned chicks will hatch unassisted but the hatch does need to be monitored closely to ensure that the chick is not becoming stressed, or stuck. Often as a result of the position in the shell they have been unable to absorb all of the yolk. Please refer to Navel SECTION BELOW.

​

Common reasons of Malpositions are:
Eggs are set with small end up.
Advancing breeder hen age and shell quality problems.
Egg turning frequency and angle are not adequate.
Inadequate % humidity loss of eggs in the setter.
Inadequate air cell development, improper temperature and humidity regulation, and insufficient ventilation in the incubator or hatcher.
Imbalanced feeds, elevated levels of mycotoxins, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies.
Lower than recommended temperatures in the last stage of incubation.

Normal hatching position and the six recognised malpositions Images:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/1608/investigating-hatchery-practice-examining-the-hatch-debris

ASSISTING MALPOSITIONED CHICKS.....
CLICK here....https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/step-by-step-guide-to-assisted-hatching​

 

[urjtobreed]

It is very sad that you lost so many. I think it would be very important to figure out why they all pipped at the wrong end. It would seem likely that you inadvertently did something to actually encourage malpositioning. If everyone on this forum could help you figure out what that was, then not only would they help you, but a lot of other hatches could potentially be improved as well.

I would think that most of the reasons suggested for malpositioning would not result in 100% malpositioned chicks, except for being placed upside down or in the wrong position. Perhaps air cells not being large enough could exacerbate an egg positioning problem.

You mentioned humidity, but did not mention the size of the air cells. The air cell size is what is more important than the actual humidity until the last 3 days when humidity is raised for hatching. For the first 18 days humidity is only important because it is used to control air cell size.

It may help if you described exactly your incubation procedure in even more detail and perhaps take pictures, especially how the eggs were turned and positioned. Were they ever turned upside down or positioned so the pointy end was higher than the round end, if so, when and how long?

I have benefited from all the advice here on incubation and have had excellent hatches using the dry hatch method. I also stop turning (automatic turner) the eggs about 4 days before hatch, mark the position on the eggs where the air cell dips the lowest, and position the eggs on their sides so that spot is the highest point on the egg. I place the eggs so they can not roll on bunched paper towel (if there is a lot of extra space) and push down the pointy end so it is low. I check to make sure they stay in that position until hatched.

 

[TAMMACLEAN]

Thank you everyone for all the advice and ideas as to why.

The next batch of eggs will be carefully documented. This was the first time trying to hatch my own eggs so perhaps I need to change some things around here. I can honestly say that EVERY chick was upside down. Very odd.
I hand turned the eggs three times a day, but I did store them pointy end down. As a matter of fact I tell my kids to put ALL the eggs pointy end down. Even the eating eggs go in the cartons that way.

I am going to elimnate scratch from the chickens that I want hatching eggs from.
It's been very cold when collecting eggs so I am going to figure out a way to keep the eggs warmer untill they are collected from the coops.
I think I will move the incubator to the basement where there is more humidity in the air.
I will check the air cells more often.----What should I do if I notice a large air cell??
At lock down I will doulbe check air cells and mark them.

Last year I put them in lock down by just laying them down. I do put them in cut down egg cartons for the first 18 days. This time I hatched them that way, untill I saw that they were pipping at the wrong end. Should they lay down or stand up for the first 18 days?? And should they lay down or stand up during lock down??

This time I will take pictures as I go.

Thank you everyone!

 

[Sally Sunshine]

 

[crubner]

I've just candled my eggs and of the viable ones, all of the air sacs are at the small end. I'm at day 14 now. Don't remember this happening the last time I set eggs and don't understand why all the air sacs would be on the wrong end. I have an automatic turner and the eggs have always been small end down. Anyone had this happen before and what are the chances of them hatching?