Why is there such a bias against hatcheries?

[Bullitt]

Cocker spaniels also. So sad when the original purpose is lost.

Exactly. And this can happen with chicken breeds if breeders focus on appearance and ignore qualities such as egg production, meat quality, temperament, etc.

 

[Whoops]

Honestly, I am a little disillusioned with both the hatchery and the SQ breeders. To continue your analogy, the hatcheries seem to be the puppymillers of the chicken world, just churning out chicks, not really breeding toward anything. How can you, when you sell the chicks a a day old? You have no idea what the breeding is producing. But the SQ breeders are like the show breeders in the dog world - breeding for appearance. Was it two years ago that the winner of crufts had to be carried around on a block of ice because his breathing was so compromised, and this monstronsity WON the show?! I lurked in the legbar threads and all I heard was "color color color" I want CCLs, but I care a boatload more about egg production, egg color (as it is a distinctive trait of the breed), adult weight and size, hardiness, and keeping the chicks distinctly autosexing. There is so much more to focus on than the color of the stupid feathers!

We will end up with chickens that can't walk like show bred GSD's, and can't mate without assistance, like english bull dogs, and they will be dropping like flies from heritable conditions. Meanwhile, their gene pool will disintegrate from line breeding and closed breeding.

I suppose you can counteract some of it by knowing who you are buying from and selecting those that breed for the characteristics you care about.

Another way to counteract it is to have breed clubs, outside of the APA, who focus, promote and emphasize the production traits for which the birds were originally bred, like longevity, egg size, quantity, and color, disease resistance, and such, and require that registered members track and report on those traits.

JMHO

 

[Whoops]

Wow - during the long time I was composing my rant, others said it more succinctly

 

[DCchicken]

Another reason to buy from a breeder is to support local farms. Also it is unlikely that a hatchery will have rare breeds, although some will try to sell a breed as rare when it is not really rare anymore. By definition most rare breeds are not good layers.

 

[Bullitt]

Honestly, I am a little disillusioned with both the hatchery and the SQ breeders. To continue your analogy, the hatcheries seem to be the puppymillers of the chicken world, just churning out chicks, not really breeding toward anything. How can you, when you sell the chicks a a day old? You have no idea what the breeding is producing. But the SQ breeders are like the show breeders in the dog world - breeding for appearance. Was it two years ago that the winner of crufts had to be carried around on a block of ice because his breathing was so compromised, and this monstronsity WON the show?! I lurked in the legbar threads and all I heard was "color color color" I want CCLs, but I care a boatload more about egg production, egg color (as it is a distinctive trait of the breed), adult weight and size, hardiness, and keeping the chicks distinctly autosexing. There is so much more to focus on than the color of the stupid feathers!

We will end up with chickens that can't walk like show bred GSD's, and can't mate without assistance, like english bull dogs, and they will be dropping like flies from heritable conditions. Meanwhile, their gene pool will disintegrate from line breeding and closed breeding.

I suppose you can counteract some of it by knowing who you are buying from and selecting those that breed for the characteristics you care about.

Another way to counteract it is to have breed clubs, outside of the APA, who focus, promote and emphasize the production traits for which the birds were originally bred, like longevity, egg size, quantity, and color, disease resistance, and such, and require that registered members track and report on those traits.

JMHO

You have some good points.

My point is that hatcheries provide a service selling chickens that lay well. They are not trying to breed chickens to meet the APA standards. But they are trying to breed toward something.

"To continue your analogy, the hatcheries seem to be the puppymillers of the chicken world, just churning out chicks, not really breeding toward anything. How can you, when you sell the chicks a a day old? You have no idea what the breeding is producing."

Hatcheries have breeding stock. They keep some offspring for future breeding stock. They know what they are producing. Their main goal with most breeds is to breed for egg production. But they also care that a breed is fairly decent, meaning it looks like the breed.

 

[Whoops]

There are several arguments for buying local. It's more sustainable, less shipping stress, more difficult for diseases to be spread across the country, you are more likely to know their stock and their values, supports the local economy, etc.

 

[Bullitt]

Another reason to buy from a breeder is to support local farms. Also it is unlikely that a hatchery will have rare breeds, although some will try to sell a breed as rare when it is not really rare anymore. By definition most rare breeds are not good layers.

Those are all good points. But many people might not have a breeder near them. Birds from breeders can be expensive also.

Most people buy from hatcheries to get chickens that lay well. That often means hybrids. But I am referring to breeds.

Yes, most rare breeds would not be good at laying.

 

[cstronks]

I guess this is just me, but I haven't noticed a severe bias against hatcheries here. There are people who prefer not to use them, but for the most part there is not a lot of open hostility towards hatcheries that I have encountered on BYC.

Whoops makes a good point in saying that hatcheries often are considered the puppymills of the chicken world. The major hatcheries like Meyer, Cackle, MPC (drop-ships for Meyer) don't appear to be that way. I am not inside the building, and if I heard allegations of abuse by humans against chickens I would not doubt it, but at this point I am not in a position to comment.

I have bought from breeders/farmers 3 times. I find it easier because they sell pullets...something that hatcheries don't necessarily sell pullets often, and if they do, plan on spending at least $100 to ship the large bird. Breeders are also very fun to deal with. They have usually handled the bird since its hatching and done what I consider the hard part (incubation, brooding, sexing, etc), so they make my life easy. With that said, I plan on using a hatchery this coming spring because I will be buying sex linked laying hens in pretty large numbers, and you can really only get large quantities of chicks from hatcheries.

I guess I am being ambivalent about both hatcheries and breeders. I have dealt with breeders many times, and they have their pros and cons, but everything in life does. I will finally get to experience what a hatchery is like in the spring and I can say I am fairly optimistic about it. The bottom line is that you should use whatever you want and whatever is most comfortable for you. Nobody mandates hatcheries - some love them, some hate them - and nobody outlaws them either. Best luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Bullitt]

I guess this is just me, but I haven't noticed a severe bias against hatcheries here. There are people who prefer not to use them, but for the most part there is not a lot of open hostility towards hatcheries that I have encountered on BYC.

Whoops makes a good point in saying that hatcheries often are considered the puppymills of the chicken world. The major hatcheries like Meyer, Cackle, MPC (drop-ships for Meyer) don't appear to be that way. I am not inside the building, and if I heard allegations of abuse by humans against chickens I would not doubt it, but at this point I am not in a position to comment.

I have bought from breeders/farmers 3 times. I find it easier because they sell pullets...something that hatcheries don't necessarily sell pullets often, and if they do, plan on spending at least $100 to ship the large bird. Breeders are also very fun to deal with. They have usually handled the bird since its hatching and done what I consider the hard part (incubation, brooding, sexing, etc), so they make my life easy. With that said, I plan on using a hatchery this coming spring because I will be buying sex linked laying hens in pretty large numbers, and you can really only get large quantities of chicks from hatcheries.

I guess I am being ambivalent about both hatcheries and breeders. I have dealt with breeders many times, and they have their pros and cons, but everything in life does. I will finally get to experience what a hatchery is like in the spring and I can say I am fairly optimistic about it. The bottom line is that you should use whatever you want and whatever is most comfortable for you. Nobody mandates hatcheries - some love them, some hate them - and nobody outlaws them either. Best luck with whatever you choose.

Most breeders do a great job. My point was that some breeders focus on appearance and ignore other qualities of a breed. That bothers me.

You haven't noticed a bias against hatcheries, huh? And then you wrote, "... hatcheries often are considered the puppymills of the chicken world."

I guess you don't consider that biased?

 

[Whoops]

Most breeders do a great job. My point was that some breeders focus on appearance and ignore other qualities of a breed. That bothers me.

You haven't noticed a bias against hatcheries, huh? And then you wrote, "... hatcheries often are considered the puppymills of the chicken world."

I guess you don't consider that biased?

I think this was just referencing what I said, not advocating it - my prejudice, not cstronks

And, by "puppymills of the chicken world" I did not mean abusive, just very commercialized and in it for the short term profit of selling chicks with no interest in improving the breeds.