Why is there such a bias against hatcheries?

[cstronks]

Most breeders do a great job. My point was that some breeders focus on appearance and ignore other qualities of a breed. That bothers me.

You haven't noticed a bias against hatcheries, huh? And then you wrote, "... hatcheries often are considered the puppymills of the chicken world."

I guess you don't consider that biased?

What I was saying is that the stereotype that is used against hatcheries is that they are like puppymills. Your question pertained to THIS SITE in particular. I have rarely seen somebody on this forum post a statement like that. You greatly exaggerate the an imaginary bias by saying that BYC members are biased against hatcheries. Maybe the rest of the world is, but BYC is generally just as confident in hatcheries as they are in breeders. People on this site use both hatcheries and breeders and are generally happy.

Also, as for the breeder remarks, you are incorrect in asserting that breeders breed for show only. Two of the breeders I used breed strictly for eggs. The best laying hens mate with the strongest, healthiest male. These birds will never be judged, they will just lay 7, XL eggs a week, with no complaints I may add. The term "breeder" should not insinuate that the chicken will be used for show. Many do, however there are plenty of breeders who breed for meat, eggs, etc.

 

[DCchicken]

I have nothing against hatcheries if that's all that is available to you. I am sure many farms require the inexpensive, large quantities available from a hatchery. But when customers come to me, I can show them the breed and help them make a decision about which breed is best for them. I have even been known to give away chicks and pullets or trade for them. I also keep in touch with my customers. There us a sense of community that is inherent with buying from a breeder. You may not get that from a hatchery.

I also have two lines of my birds, ones that are breed for standards and one that is breed for productivity and hardiness. Of course I breed only rare breeds. Not everyone going to a breeder wants show quality. They may want good quality that approaches the standard AND is a good layer. Or maybe they just want a good pet. For example, I breed many lines of birds that are just mellow or some that are incredible foragers.

 

[Bullitt]

I think this was just referencing what I said, not advocating it - my prejudice, not cstronks

And, by "puppymills of the chicken world" I did not mean abusive, just very commercialized and in it for the short term profit of selling chicks with no interest in improving the breeds.

"Puppy mill" has a very negative connotation because they are often illegal operations.

I was just trying to point out the bias toward hatcheries.

 

[Bullitt]

Also, as for the breeder remarks, you are incorrect in asserting that breeders breed for show only.

I was referring to breeders who breed for show only. Some breeders do breed for show.

I understand there are many types of breeders.

 

[Vamvakas]

I have bought chicks from hatcheries in the past and yes they do make good layers but there personality (on most) are horrible they peck each other, eat feathers, there load/noisy. I finally said forgot it and got chicks from a master breeder/judge and his hens been nice and the rooster is nice, they don't lay as well as hatchery birds but personality wise they are nice.

 

[Bullitt]

I have bought chicks from hatcheries in the past and yes they do make good layers but there personality (on most) are horrible they peck each other, eat feathers, there load/noisy. I finally said forgot it and got chicks from a master breeder/judge and his hens been nice and the rooster is nice, they don't lay as well as hatchery birds but personality wise they are nice.

Did you get the same breed of chickens from the hatchery and from the breeder? What breed or breeds did you get?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

You make the assumption that all breeders are breeding for show. I would have to say that all the breeders I know are breeding for hardiness and productivity. I do not kill the males. I give them away for free. The hatcheries don't care about improving the breed. They are a business and profit motivated.

You're right, there are as many types of breeders as breeds of chickens. IMO vigor is the first thing to achieve. Then those qualities for which they were first developed or appreciated.
I each chicken so I don't give them away. It's an unpleasant task but it's better than buying the mushy flavorless stuff they pass as chicken when I have such good quality meat in birds that aren't going to be improving my lines of birds.

...

I suppose you can counteract some of it by knowing who you are buying from and selecting those that breed for the characteristics you care about.

Another way to counteract it is to have breed clubs, outside of the APA, who focus, promote and emphasize the production traits for which the birds were originally bred, like longevity, egg size, quantity, and color, disease resistance, and such, and require that registered members track and report on those traits.

JMHO

I've often asked a breeder what their breeding goals are. They're usually honest. If they win a lot of prizes and show a lot, I doubt they are breeding for productivity.

Another reason to buy from a breeder is to support local farms. Also it is unlikely that a hatchery will have rare breeds, although some will try to sell a breed as rare when it is not really rare anymore. By definition most rare breeds are not good layers.

It can be poor laying ability but IMO, by definition, rare breeds are those that have fallen out of favor or never gained favor for one reason or another. Case in point - Lamona, Penedesenca, Andalusian, Java, Buckeye, Langshan, Lakenvelder and Fayoumi. All pretty good or very good layers. Lamonas were fabulous layers and may not even exist any more.
Aseels are very poor layers but they aren't that rare.

...
Hatcheries have breeding stock. They keep some offspring for future breeding stock. They know what they are producing. Their main goal with most breeds is to breed for egg production. But they also care that a breed is fairly decent, meaning it looks like the breed.

Good point.

...

I also have two lines of my birds, ones that are breed for standards and one that is breed for productivity and hardiness. Of course I breed only rare breeds. Not everyone going to a breeder wants show quality. They may want good quality that approaches the standard AND is a good layer. ...

That may be the way I need to go. I only have the time and space to do justice to a single breed.
After vigor, comes egg color, egg size, productivity, size for meat, feather, leg and beak color, comb type, earlobe color, etc..
I've heard of this technique before, select one line for SOP and another line for productivity and cross them down the line.
There are very few around to get new blood from. So I started with a fairly small gene pool and have only been able to add 2 pullets with inferior egg color but I'm using them for new blood.

 

[Bullitt]

That may be the way I need to go. I only have the time and space to do justice to a single breed.
After vigor, comes egg color, egg size, productivity, size for meat, feather, leg and beak color, comb type, earlobe color, etc..
I've heard of this technique before, select one line for SOP and another line for productivity and cross them down the line.
There are very few around to get new blood from. So I started with a fairly small gene pool and have only been able to add 2 pullets with inferior egg color but I'm using them for new blood.

What breed are you breeding? If you mentioned it, I may have missed it.

 

[Going Quackers]

I haven't seen so much of that here but i do know of what you speak of. I think there are pro/cons to each and both hatchery and breeders can be positive and negative, i don't like the term "puppy mill" as referred mainly because while i believe the OP of that statement was meaning it in regards to higher production but let's be real when people say puppy mill most envision mistreated, neglected/abused, over bred animals, and usually that is not quite the case of a decent hatchery.

Also some hatcheries are local not all are purely online, and some breeders aren't local so technically that doesn't always play out either...

I have both here, well actually a third option because i have bred some of my own, i think as with everything there are variables, you have to find what suits your purpose.. and then go from there.

 

[Bullitt]

I think there are pro/cons to each and both hatchery and breeders can be positive and negative,

I agree.

But people always tell others that they can get XYZ breed at a hatchery, but you won't get real ones. Yes, they are real ones. They might not conform to show standards of what the breed should be, but hatchery chickens are perfectly fine for someone who wants a backyard flock to add color and provide eggs.

That means hatcheries are fine for the majority of people who want chickens. And 99.9% of people in the United States can't tell a breed that meets the standard of perfection from one that doesn't.